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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 2049 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

Good morning and welcome to the 31st meeting in 2023 of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. We have apologies from our convener, Collette Stevenson.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take agenda item 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

I will ask about the voice of the worker, of lived experience and of occupational health in a moment, but I take it from your first answers that SCOSS will not be an appropriate vehicle for offering that kind of advice and that fundamental changes would have to be made to the structures of SCOSS to enable it to do so.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Delivering Scottish Social Security

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

Welcome back. Our next item of business is an evidence session with Dr Sally Witcher, the former chair of the Scottish Commission on Social Security, commonly known as SCOSS. The purpose of this session is to gain further insight into what lessons for the Scottish social security system can be learned from what has happened up to now.

I warmly welcome Dr Witcher to the meeting. I thank her for accepting our invitation and I also put on record our thanks for all the work and effort that she has put into designing and supporting Scotland鈥檚 social security system up to now. Before we move to questions, I invite her to make an opening statement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

Thank you, cabinet secretary. You have made it very clear that the Government does not support the bill, but is it open to elements in it? Not supporting the bill is one thing, but being open minded about certain aspects of its contents is another. Are those issues being ruled out, or will they be considered as part of the Government鈥檚 wider consultation?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

It is clear that the Scottish Government will have to think carefully about the kinds of knowledge and expertise that will be necessary to advise ministers on social security with regard to industrial disease and injury. Can you give us a little bit more information about the kind of knowledge and expertise that you think will be vital?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

Thank you, cabinet secretary. We move to questions from Marie McNair.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Delivering Scottish Social Security

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

Dr Witcher, that is very kind of you. I should reassure you that we are not looking for unpaid consultancy or expert advisory work.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

I have one final financial question. It is not directly related to the bill but is about the financial exposure that is caused by demand-led budgeting within social security, which the new Scottish benefit will be subject to. You said that your officials are in contact with the IIAC and the DWP about long Covid in connection with current benefits. Does that include any modelling of the financial exposure for the Scottish Government over any agency agreements, if the DWP was to accept those? That is the first part of my question.

What horizon-scanning work is the Scottish Government doing? You can set that out in writing if you want to, cabinet secretary. Without pre-judging what any new eligibility might look like, what future financial exposure do you anticipate for the Scottish Government? I am mindful that, if Scotland does the right thing鈥攁s we absolutely should do鈥攂ut the UK does not change anything, that will increase pressure on the Scottish budget. That is not directly connected to the financial memorandum to this bill, but there is definitely a correlation between the aspirations of this bill and the financial exposure of the Scottish budget and Scottish Government. Is there anything more that you can say about that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Delivering Scottish Social Security

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

I think that it does answer it. The important thing is that you have laid out quite clearly not just the limitations but the opportunities going forward, and you have just left that comment about the relationship with DWP officials hanging. That absolutely needs to be developed.

However, I will not explore that further, because we have a ream of colleagues who want to ask questions, and I do not want to dominate the session. I call Jeremy Balfour.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Scottish Employment Injuries Advisory Council Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Bob Doris

Just for my own clarity鈥攚ithout getting into any wrangling over whether occupational health or health and safety should be devolved or reserved, and irrespective of where those powers sit鈥攄o you believe that there should be clear roles for the Health and Safety Executive, occupational health and our trade union movement?