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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 August 2025
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Displaying 2049 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

I think that it is fair to say that members will be on a learning curve for some of this.

What levels of activity are there in natural capital finance in Scotland, and what impact is that having on land use? Convener, I have a supplementary question, which I will roll in due to time constraints, so that I do not have to come in twice on the same point.

My questions are about current levels of activity and the impact that that is having on land use. It would also be interesting for anyone who is watching the session to get an idea of your organisation鈥檚 interest in the sector, to give a context to your evidence. Perhaps Stuart Greenwood could start.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful, because, in evidence, we are hearing about modest numbers, but the activity with regard to woodland has trebled in four years. To an outsider, that looks like significant growth, but it is still relatively modest, given what we have to do.

I will move on. It was helpful to get everyone to set the scene, but it might be that not everyone will need to answer my next question. We are keen to know what is motivating different actors to engage in the area. What is making investors get involved? For example, what is motivating land managers to develop and certify projects, and what is motivating investors and buyers on the market side? What is getting those investors involved and land managers to come to the table and play games? What are the driving factors? A couple of witnesses might want to get some of that information on the record. Mr Paterson is nodding at me, so I suspect that he wants to come in.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

On diversification, Mr Paterson talked about revenues. Does any witness have anything to add that is not already on the record?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

I apologise, but I was talking about investment. We are looking at different outcomes and at how we leverage in finance to do some of the environmental work. I do not want to ask someone else鈥檚 question, convener, but I was clarifying that the trend appears to be up but that the level is still relatively modest in global numbers.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

Thank you. I apologise for cutting you off, Mr Young.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

It is always dangerous to ask a question when I am not quite clear on the context. You mention return. Is there a yield on that? Can you quantify it in percentage terms? Would 5 per cent be an impressive yield for such a financial investment? What are we looking at? I get that investors might want to do the right thing, but there is a financial imperative鈥攖hey want to make money.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

Thank you. Mr Young wants to come in.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

This question almost takes us full circle back to my first line of questioning. I referred to investment in trading in carbon from 2018-19 to 2022-23. More than 拢3 million was invested in woodland in 2018-19, and the figure was 拢9.5 million in 2022-23. There were similar figures for peatland鈥攊nvestment rose from 拢19,000 to 拢1.6 million. Those are still relatively small figures, but we can see the increasing trend. I do not fully understand the numbers, but I can see the pattern in them.

During other lines of questioning, prior issues units鈥擨 apologise if I have got the terminology wrong鈥攚ere mentioned. That got me thinking about the pipeline of future investment. Is that the best way to think about PIUs? We have estimates for each year, but lurking behind those is potential investment for future years. I want to be sure that that is what is meant by PIUs. Have I understood them properly? How can the committee see what potential future investment is lurking positively in the background, so that we can see the pipeline of potential investment based on incentives that might or might not be given and those kinds of things? Have I understood that correctly, Mr Paterson?

10:30  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

Right. Maybe I have misunderstood things. I just wanted to make sure that there was not something that the committee should be looking at. We cannot track such investment. We cannot say that, in the next five years, we estimate that there will be investment of X, Y and Z based on what a future pipeline of investment might look like. Does that not exist in a public forum?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Bob Doris

Therefore, although the trend is upwards, it is all still at a relatively modest level.