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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 757 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

I am aware of that.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

I appreciate your position, but I am asking whether you think that the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and Police Scotland are wrong.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

I am asking what you would say in response if they raised the same issue about any other bill.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

Returning to UNCRC compliance, I did not, to be frank, think that this would be raised as an issue in evidence, but the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Office flagged it almost as an aside.

Indeed, I was struck by what was said when I asked about the matter in our evidence session with the COPFS and the Law Society of Scotland. You have said that you are clear that the bill has no UNCRC compliance issues, but I will quote from the Official Report of a previous meeting. When I asked Dr Forbes from the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service whether she had

鈥渢he sense that not enough thought has been given to the issue of compliance with the UNCRC at this stage鈥,

she replied:

鈥淚 did not see it addressed in the policy memorandum, I have to say.鈥

When I further asked Dr Forbes whether she felt that not enough due consideration had been given to the issue and whether there was

鈥渁 possibility that the bill as drafted might fall foul of our legislation with regard to compliance with the UNCRC鈥. 鈥擺Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 10 December 2025; c 23.],

she gave a preamble but, effectively, her answer to the question was yes. Why is the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service wrong and you are right?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

I do not think that Scottish Women鈥檚 Aid was necessarily saying that it would apply to their organisation specifically. It was talking about the burden that the bureaucracy would place on Police Scotland, and so on.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

Well, let us suppose that you were. Where should it come from?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

Okay.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

Sorry鈥攖hat is what I meant. I have no doubt that you have spoken with the Crown Office鈥擨 would be surprised if you had not鈥攂ut I meant that you did not ask about this specific issue. That is useful to understand.

This is my final question on part 3, convener, which is on an area that I think is important. Concerns have been raised about victims possibly being asked the same questions multiple times by multiple organisations, which could lead to some form of retraumatisation, and about the approach in the bill not being trauma informed. Have you considered that? Is it a concern for you? It would be a concern for me. Are you concerned that such an approach could retraumatise victims?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

It is quite a significant variance.

Similarly, on part 2 of the bill, COSLA provided the Finance and Public Administration Committee with data from a local authority, which suggested that the Caledonian programme鈥檚

鈥渃ost per person amounts to approximately 拢3,460鈥

whereas the cost per person outlined in your financial memorandum is 拢2,325. Again, that is a significant difference, is it not?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Hepburn

So, you would be willing to make changes to the bill to make this bill UNCRC compliant but, right now, you think that it is.