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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 June 2025
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Displaying 286 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

Would it be possible for me to answer your question, Ms White? Would it be possible for you to ask me a question and for me to come back with an answer? Can we operate on that basis?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I am very happy to commit to doing that for the specific act that we are discussing—indeed, for all three acts that we are discussing today.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I disagree. We have set out the reasons why there has been a delay. Nel Whiting has gone into some of that territory. We are happy to expand further on some of the challenges that we have faced but, to be frank, the notion that there has been back-pedalling is nonsensical and insulting.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I will bring Nel in on that but, fundamentally, when it comes to the national health service, NHS Lothian has been mentioned—

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

On the first element of your question, I have already made the point about the activity that we plan to take forward, when we will make four more sets of regulations in the new year. For example, we will use secondary legislation to put the Care Inspectorate in place as the independent regulator of child contact services. That work is on-going, and I plan to make the SSIs to enable that in 2025.

The second point was on what we might be able to do just now around child welfare reporters. I am not saying that we do not want to fully implement the Children (Scotland) Act 2020, but there might be things that we could do now, short of fully implementing it. We are actively considering that in advance of implementing the new register.

There is a working group on child welfare reporters, which contains a range of stakeholders, and it met for the first time on 20 November. It was chaired by Siobhian Brown as Minister for Victims and Community Safety. The working group has a remit to look back at how changes from the previous working group are working in practice and to look ahead at what is needed for any new register.

In relation to your fundamental point and your question on how any improvements could be made now, I am given to understand that there are concerns around training, so the working group could look into that. In fact, I think that the group is going to consider that at its next meeting.

We are here to talk about the implementation of legislation, and that remains important. However, where there are things that we can do in the immediate here and now, we should seek to do that and we should try to take things forward.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

But you are going to.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I will perhaps bring in Simon Stockwell to see whether he can provide any more detail around timescales. Clearly, dialogue will be necessary to ensure that the regulations are fully informed and appropriate and will achieve their specific purpose. From my perspective, that should be done as soon as possible, but with the caveat that the regulations have to be effective.

Simon, do you have any more information on timescales?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

Again, as part of our commitment to keeping the committee regularly informed, we will ensure that we take a note of that and make it part of our work.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

First of all, let me be clear: I do not think that the term “Oh well” came out of my mouth at any stage, Ms White. When I said that I am not involved, what I meant is that I am not involved in direct implementation because I am the Minister for Parliamentary Business. I do not have policy responsibility for that area—that is not in any way, shape or form to say that the area is unimportant. Given the level of detail with which Nel Whiting laid out the actions that have been taken to try to implement the act, it is unfair to suggest that nothing has happened at all.

The point was well made about the challenges that have been faced across Government, not just for this specific piece of important legislation but for a range of legislation—although I would observe that I do not think that delays are a systemic part of our approach to legislation. However, there are—and have been—challenges as a consequence of some of the bigger challenges that we have faced as a society.

The point was made that we have seen the 50 per cent uplift in cases reported through NHS Lothian partly as a consequence of some of the awareness-raising activities that we have undertaken. The existing resource in NHS Lothian was rediverted during Covid-19, and it is only as a consequence of having gone through that period that we have been able to refocus the activity. That speaks to the fundamental point that there is not only a challenge for the Government; there are also challenges for all of the stakeholders and all of the partners that are involved in the implementation of the FGM act—and of the other two acts that we are discussing today—because they have had to divert activity similarly.

However, in answer to your fundamental question: yes, I can understand why the women and girls out there who are relying on us to implement the act would be disappointed. I am disappointed, too. If you were to ask me, “Is it good enough? Is it acceptable that we face this delay?”, I would say that, in essence, no, it is not; but we are where we are. I am determined to make sure that we implement the FGM act as quickly as possible.

You mentioned the election. The election happens to be in 2026; that has absolutely nothing to do with the timescale in which we are seeking to implement the act.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Jamie Hepburn

I will happily speak to that and bring in Simon Stockwell as is felt necessary.

Some of the challenge around delay relates to the points that I have already made. The Children (Scotland) Act 2020 is wide ranging and covers a range of complex implementation activity for regulating the child contact services sector, establishing a new register of child welfare reporters, setting up a pilot of information meetings and alternative dispute resolution, setting up funding for that, and ensuring that child advocacy services are available in contact and residence cases. There is a lot of complexity in there, which partly explains why there has been a delay.

However, a lot of the act has been implemented. Yes, there are delays to elements of it, but if you look across its various provisions, you can see that many elements are already in place. Some have been in place since 17 January 2021—namely, sections 15, 23 and 24. Others—sections 13, 14, 25 and 26—have been in place since 26 July 2021. Still others have been in place since October 2021. There are delays and challenges to some aspects of the act, but a lot of it has been implemented.