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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 August 2025
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Displaying 1010 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

It is important that we look at this issue in the round, particularly when we look at the senior phase. Our school-college partnerships are exceptionally important and becoming even more so.

We are linking in with the colleges, as demonstrated by the fact that Colleges Scotland has been invited on to the Scottish education council, which it was not on previously. I hope that that demonstrates our commitment to look at this in the round and to recognise that we cannot look only at what happens in schools. When we look at attainment and achievement, we need to view it in a wider sense, and colleges play a very important role in that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We will look very carefully at what the OECD has recommended. One of the challenges that we will have in taking the report forward is that there is a lot of change in it. Some of those changes can happen at the same time and some of them will have to happen on different timescales. Part of the reason for that is that our collaborative work with stakeholders to get the details of that change correct—which I believe that we should do—will take some time.

11:00  

There is a lot to do. Some of it is work that we can undertake quite quickly, and in some areas, as I have said, it will take time. As I look to make further announcements on this, I will try to set out what we can do in the short term and to highlight the areas that will take longer. Part of the OECD’s suggestions about how to take things forward involved the time that it takes to take them forward.

The manner in which we do that is exceptionally important. As I said in earlier remarks, I am determined to play a collaborative role as education secretary. The committee and the Parliament will decide how it wants to take forward any work on these issues, but I will be more than happy to work with anyone and everyone who has a role. There are a number of challenges in the report, and not all of them can be addressed at the same time or quickly.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

That works very nicely into what the SQA has done—although, obviously, as Government minister, I have regular discussions with stakeholders on that issue and a variety of others, as do my officials. Last year, the SQA established the national qualifications 2021 group, on which unions, parents and young people were represented. During that time, there was an attempt to achieve consensus, whenever possible, and that was achieved on the vast majority of issues, I think, with the exception of appeals.

There was then a discussion about how the SQA could improve on that process for next year. One of the ways of doing that, about which Fiona Robertson spoke to the committee, was to ensure that young people had a greater voice and a greater capacity to have their say.

That group is exceptionally important. It allows things to be aired at length, and it continues to meet exceptionally regularly to discuss the contingencies that are in place. What was established by the SQA last year was a good example of how stakeholders can work together, and I am pleased that the SQA looked at that and refreshed it with an eye to what more could be done this year—in particular, to bring in young people more. That does not necessarily mean that there will be agreement on all aspects, but I think that the process will allow everyone to have their say.

Of course, as Government minister, as I said, I have a clear line of sight to stakeholders as they input to the discussions on that. For example, we have discussed that issue at various times at the education recovery group, which I co-chair with Councillor Stephen McCabe. Those matters are brought up there and are refreshed and discussed, if stakeholders wish.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I do not think that I have with me information about when the assessments will take place for other areas of the country.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I have received advice from it previously.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

That very much depends on what Mr Muir recommends. It will not be an expensive process, because we are not inventing new agencies for the sake of it. We are challenging ourselves to make sure that the structures, functions and, importantly, the cultures of those organisations are fit for purpose.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I assure you that I keep a close eye on all the agencies within my remit. I think that SDS is working effectively. I have tried to make it clear that we are not taking anything for granted, which is why we are assessing the training packages to see whether they are fit for purpose. We know that we need to do better on the alignment between the skills packages and the education packages.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

That is still up for consultation. The Feeley review of social care considered including adult services in a national care service, but there is a concern that having adult services in such a service and keeping children’s services separate would lead to more difficult transitions and challenges.

One of the areas on which we are genuinely keen to seek people’s views—I know that there will be different views on it—as we look to establish the national care service is how we get the best outcomes for children out of it, particularly with a view to transition. That is part of the consultation. The Government has not taken a view on it, as I hope Willie Rennie would expect, given the fact that the consultation is still live.

We will, of course, analyse the responses to that consultation. However, there is an understandable body of opinion that having adult services separate from children’s services would be detrimental to how the system operates. It is one body of opinion—there are others—but that is the position that we are considering at the moment.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I say with the greatest respect to Oliver Mundell that it would be utterly inappropriate for a politician of any colour to have direct control of qualification credits in the country. It is absolutely key that a qualifications agency is independent of Government. That allows the system to be credible and free of outside political interference. I do not intend to take over day-to-day control of the SQA.

Of course, the Government will absolutely ensure that we have a close working relationship with the SQA, as and when that is appropriate, to ensure that we have the working relationship that people would expect. I am sure that the committee would expect me to work closely with, and where appropriate challenge, the chief examiner on issues as we proceed. However, over the past year, the SQA has ensured that a fair and credible system was in place that allowed young people to receive their qualifications under the most difficult of circumstances.

I will be careful to maintain a close working relationship and to challenge where necessary. I do not think that, in my time in my remit so far, people could criticise me for not keeping a close eye on the SQA. I will continue to do that and ensure that the correct distinction is made so that the SQA is independent, as it has to be.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Session 6 Priorities

Meeting date: 6 October 2021

Shirley-Anne Somerville

There are different funding streams in the attainment challenge. I will look at whether what you have suggested would be the most effective use of them. When I met various committee members at the start of my time as education secretary, they had different opinions on how these things might be done in future. I have listened to those comments, but I point out that a key part of the attainment challenge has been headteachers’ ability to make decisions directly, and that will remain.

On teacher numbers, the Government has committed to putting in place 3,500 additional teachers during this parliamentary session. As that commitment is separate and additional to the Scottish attainment challenge fund, it has not formed part of my discussions around the attainment challenge. Instead, it will go through the usual process of funding being distributed to local authorities.