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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 August 2025
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Displaying 1019 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

It is not the case.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Again, I point to the fact that we have seen an uplift in the PEF per pupil that is given to local authorities. We have established that this year.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

An important area of work with local authorities relates to the fact that we allow money to roll on so that local authorities can blend it, but I point to the fact that, even if that—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Let me finish my point. Even if £6 million was not being used in education, a very substantial gap would still be left. There is not £43 million unallocated in my education portfolio. As with all these things, if the member thinks that I should be spending additional money, he should say where it should come from. Should it come from early years education? We removed core curriculum charges; should it come from that budget? Should I reduce the school clothing grant? The money all has to come from somewhere. With the greatest respect, I cannot just find £43 million of additional funding.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

There was a discussion initially about how we could have a fair funding settlement. We then discussed with stakeholders what that fair funding settlement would look like right across Scotland. In the evidence that the committee has heard, one of the education directors—I think that it was the director from Inverclyde Council—said that she would, of course, have preferred to keep all the money, but she recognised that a fair funding settlement was required.

We discussed the impact of that, as the committee would expect, and that is one of the reasons why I made sure that a taper was in place to allow the changes in funding to be made not over one year, but over four.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I will reflect on a conference I was at only last week, at which I was asked by a teacher, in questions and answers, about the importance of taking a whole-child approach and the fact that it is impossible to—nor should we attempt to—look at education just by looking at attainment and not looking at children’s health and wellbeing. That is very important. Indeed, the feedback that I was receiving from teachers last week was about the importance of ensuring that we were look at health and wellbeing and other aspects.

We have more teachers now than we have had at any time since 2008. The ratio of pupils to teachers is at its lowest since 2009. There are more than 2,000 more teachers in Scotland’s schools than there were before the start of the pandemic and, of course, we have made additional commitments for the current parliamentary session. That shows that we are investing in teacher numbers, but it is not contradictory to say that, along with headteachers, parents and teachers, we should also look at how PEF should be spent to support those young people. That is a very clear part of the system.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Education Scotland is an agency of Government, so the responsibility absolutely lies with me as the cabinet secretary. However, Education Scotland played a very important role in the refreshed attainment challenge funding around both the support that is provided, but also the challenge where necessary.

Education Scotland is, as I am, keen to have a collaborative approach, but there needs to be a little bit of grit in the system where, for example, the work that Education Scotland has done with a local authority does not then deliver the types of progress that one might expect. It is the responsibility of local government to discuss that. There is a collaborative approach. There needs to be that grit in the system, but it is there only for a situation where the collaboration has not produced the changes that we would all like to see at the pace that we would like to see them.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Six months from now, we will have a fully refreshed system and we will have the stretch aims in place. We will be able to discuss those stretch aims, and not in the abstract. I will perhaps make it easier and just point to that, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I would have to look at what we wanted to achieve from it before that determination could take place. Stakeholders would have views on where that would best sit, and I would listen to them if we were going to take the proposal forward. The overall responsibility for the evaluation clearly sits with the Scottish Government, but Education Scotland plays and will continue to play a very important role in the evaluation over the coming years.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

It can happen in a number of different ways. Regional improvement collaboratives are important in allowing local authorities to work together, collaborate, share good practice and support one another. Education Scotland will have numerous conversations directly with schools or with local authority central teams to look at the work that is going on. Education Scotland also has 32 attainment advisers, who are able to provide support and, when necessary, challenge to a local authority.

The process is very much intended to be collaborative and supportive. I have not met people in the education system who do not want to see change, but Education Scotland is able to escalate those measures and to have further discussions with local authorities should it feel the need to do that.