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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 1019 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

On the different rates, which I have seen, further education and higher education are very different sectors and are funded in different ways. The ability of the college sector to seek other sources of funding is exceedingly different from that of universities. Therefore, the comparisons are a bit too simplistic, but, as the Funding Council said, we need to understand those figures better. I am happy for the Funding Council to continue to investigate that.

The fact that we have been able to increase the college budget by £26 million demonstrates the Government’s awareness of the important role that colleges have. Bob Doris is right to point out the number of young people—and, indeed, adult learners—who use further education to then move on to university or, indeed, complete higher education within the college sector.

There are a number of ways in which the college sector can deliver for people who are furthest away from the labour market all the way up to those who are taking degrees. Colleges’ flexibility and their determination to have an offer for many different demographics is a real testament to their ability to innovate and move forward with where the skills agenda needs to be. That demonstrates a real willingness to perform in that area, and colleges do so well.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We knew that we were making an impact because of the statistics that I read out to the member earlier, but we knew that we had to do more and that there were areas in which we still needed to improve, which is exactly why we have had a refresh. I will certainly not sit here and say that everything pre-pandemic was going at the pace or with the urgency that we would have liked. That is exactly why we have refreshed the system.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I point Bob Doris to two aspects of the impact of Covid. One is the equity audit that took place some time ago, which looked at and reported back on the impact of Covid. The other is the most recent ACEL statistics, which showed a dip in attainment. It is very difficult to draw a direct correlation between one thing happening and any impact on attainment, but I do not think it would be stretching the bounds too much to say that, during the past couple of years, Covid has impacted on attainment. That was clearly shown in the equity audit.

The context that Mr Doris points to is exceptionally important and will be taken account of as Education Scotland works with local authorities on the stretch aims. The context of every local authority will be taken into account and, as we develop our policies, we will always ensure that we analyse the impact of those policies once we evaluate.

It is very difficult to point to one policy correlating directly to a change in outcomes, but it is clear that the more that we can do to tackle child poverty, for example, the more we will be able to help families in their overall circumstances, and the more that will help with attainment. Likewise, if decisions such as the ÂŁ20 cut to universal credit that Mr Doris pointed to are taken elsewhere, they will have negative consequences for families and will inevitably impact on how they cope. We will endeavour to look at and take account of the impact of different policies and understand that context as we move forward once local authorities have developed the stretch aims.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We absolutely have school and local authority plans and reports—they are a condition of the grant. However, it is for Education Scotland to collate the information. We would be happy to provide further advice after the meeting, but it is a condition of the grant that the schools or local authorities work with Education Scotland on the projects and, importantly, that they discuss what has worked and what has had the greatest impact. We also have the annual evaluation reports that look at a range of different expenditure. However, it is part of our empowerment agenda to empower headteachers to determine how to spend money, and our agencies are there to assist them to ensure that the money has been spent effectively and that other schools are learning from that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

—of the fact that it has produced reports that have endorsed curriculum for excellence and in which it has encouraged us to develop the way—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

You will see information about the stretch aims. I am not going to make any apologies for the fact that, as the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, I am working with local authorities to allow them to develop stretch aims that are supported by our national agencies. Given your commitment to empowering local government, I think that the committee will be pleased that we are not dictating from the centre but working with local government to deliver the stretch aims that will be publicly available. We are working together with people.

I am not sure about the last time that the First Minister was asked a question about her defining mission, but it is absolutely the defining mission of this Government to close the poverty-related attainment gap. It has always been a long-term process. That was made very clear right from the start of the project, and, as the OECD and Audit Scotland have made very clear, it will always be a long-term project. Nevertheless, we are determined to see accelerated progress.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I am referring to one of the four directors of education who sat in front of the committee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

The Scottish Government has a responsibility to have a funding package in place that recognises that and provides funding to every local authority. I think that everyone agreed that there needs to be a fair model. That is what we have delivered through the new funding allocation.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Would you like to take money away from somebody else’s portfolio? Would you like to take it from health, justice or social care?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Shirley-Anne Somerville

You have insinuated that there are difficulties with overall education expenditure in different local authorities, so I am merely pointing the committee to the actual overall education expenditure. We have very much looked to provide a fair funding formula right across Scotland. The allocations that were distributed to the nine local authorities were determined based on bespoke bids for resource, rather than a data-driven approach. We have moved to a distribution model that recognises that poverty exists in every local authority in Scotland. I point to that 59 per cent figure that I mentioned earlier.

Ruth Binks, from Inverclyde Council, who was one of the directors of education in front of the committee, made it very clear in her testimony that

“When we started as attainment challenge authorities we were very much told that we were the pathfinders, looking at how to make things work. We were asked to adopt”

and

“adapt”.—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 4 May 2022; c 8.]

That is what they did. It is very important to set out that context. I have been invited to find an extra £43 million in the education budget, but there is not £43 million sitting spare, not being spent, in the education budget. If the committee—