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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 1019 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Justice Priorities

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We will be very happy to carry on that work once the consultation goes live. The Government has a good track record of working with those who are most directly impacted by benefits to help to shape the focus of any new benefit. That would include people who currently receive the benefit as well as those who perceive that there are barriers to them receiving such a benefit. I am happy to reaffirm my colleague’s commitment.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Child Poverty and Parental Employment Inquiry

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I take the points that Mr Doris has raised very seriously. The Government is very keen to ensure that we support families during the most difficult financial times. That is exactly why we have best start foods, for which we are suggesting changes to income thresholds, as the committee will be aware. It is why we have the pregnancy and baby, early learning and school age payments. It is also—as Mr Doris mentioned—why the school clothing grant is being uplifted in line with inflation.

I recognise that there are always calls for us to do more. We will work carefully with the committee and others on prioritisation, because a number of different calls for funding require us all to think about how we prioritise the many ways that we could further assist families. I appreciate that it is a very difficult time for many people.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Child Poverty and Parental Employment Inquiry

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Clearly, the Scottish child payment has made a difference. We hear that directly from stakeholders and in some of the evidence that I quoted in my introductory remarks with regard to the importance of the payment.

It is clear that there are calls for the level of the payment to be further increased, and I appreciate where those calls are coming from. It is important, however, to add a bit of context. I remember that, when the Scottish child payment was initially launched, campaigners were asking for ÂŁ5 per week per eligible child, and we are now at ÂŁ25 per week. I hope that that shows the committee the very serious consideration that is being given across Government to see what can be done to increase the payment.

The challenge, as the committee has heard in previous answers this morning, concerns the financial situation in which we find ourselves, and the current context. As the First Minister has made clear, we will look at what we can do on the Scottish child payment, and on any other anti-poverty measures, to see what more can be done, but it will always have to be done within the current financial context.

We will consider an increase very seriously in the run-up to the next budget, along with the other asks—and there are many—that people would wish us to take forward in relation to these issues, but it would have to be done within the financial reality of the situation that we are in.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Child Poverty and Parental Employment Inquiry

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

That comes down to the legislative background of how the Scottish child payment was set up. I remind members that the benefit was established within 18 months, which was the quickest delivery of a benefit anywhere in the UK. That shows the importance that the Government placed on the benefit at the time. To do that, it was necessary to deliver it as a top-up to current reserved benefits. Someone needs to be in receipt of universal credit, for example, to be able to receive the Scottish child payment. Given the legislative underpinning of the Scottish child payment, it is therefore not possible to allow payment of the benefit to someone who is not in receipt of, for example, universal credit. It is not possible, given the way that the Scottish child pavement was set up. However, I hope that I have explained to members why we set it up in the way that we did.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Child Poverty and Parental Employment Inquiry

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

The number of individuals who are being sanctioned is of great concern, particularly when you look at the numbers pre-pandemic, post-pandemic and during the pandemic. For the sake of time, I am happy to provide written information to the committee on the sanctions that are currently impacting people. The Scottish Government is greatly concerned about the impact of sanctions on people, and it is imperative that we have in place something such as the Scottish welfare fund to assist people, which is why we remain committed to funding it. It is delivered by local authorities, which are responsible for ensuring its promotion. We work with local authorities on that, and we consider with them, as always, what more can be done to ensure that people are aware of it.

I recognise Marie McNair’s point about the type of individuals who can be impacted by sanctions. Some of them are in the priority groups that we have identified in “Best Start, Bright Futures”. It is a concern when anyone is sanctioned, but the fact that the people who are getting hit hardest are some of the most vulnerable in our society is of even greater concern.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Child Poverty and Parental Employment Inquiry

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

It is very important to ensure not only that we have the benefit in place but that people know about it and are encouraged and assisted to apply for it. I am happy to provide the committee with the most recent levels of uptake. From memory, the number of people who are in receipt of the Scottish child payment is now greater than was set out in the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s forecasts.

I hope that that demonstrates the further work that the Government has done on the Scottish child payment, but—as the committee heard from Neil Gray—we do not rest on our laurels. We know that there are more eligible people out there, and the example of those who require the payment is why we take seriously the local delivery work that Social Security Scotland does in assisting people with benefit applications. We have a continuing commitment to provide welfare and advice support. We want to ensure that people are supported and, critically, that the process is made as simple as possible.

We are always looking for ways to increase benefit uptake, and we are very happy to work with the committee if it has suggestions about what more we can do. I share Paul O’Kane’s concerns and his enthusiasm to ensure that the Government is pressed as much as possible on that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Justice Priorities

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I can give you examples of some of the work that we have been doing, and if the committee requires any further detail, we can go into that, too.

I highlight, for example, some of the impact assessments that are undertaken when policies are being developed and on which we work very closely with stakeholders. It is very important that we have the analysis and modelling to support “Best Start, Bright Futures”, because we can use that to see what impact we are having through our policies and to challenge ourselves as to what more we can do and whether the money is being used for the best opportunities. The modelling also has to take account of impacts from elsewhere—and outwith the Scottish Government’s powers—on child poverty levels, but the modelling itself is very important, because an evidence-based approach is critical.

Another example is social security. Clearly, a great deal of work goes into the development of social security policies with those with lived experience as well as with stakeholders to ensure that we deliver the best possible benefit in the best possible way that can reach the maximum number of people. Earlier, we touched on the issue of take-up. Clearly, we are very committed to that; after all, we have a benefit take-up strategy, unlike the UK Government, which does not.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Justice Priorities

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I ask the committee to forgive me—I am not exactly sure about the specific reference that Mr Wallace made in the letter. Clearly, analysis is done by the agency around how long it takes to process a case. That might not give the specific timeframes that Mr Balfour is looking for, but I am happy to refer back to the evidence session to see the exact question that was asked and the letter that was provided, and to provide the information.

I take very seriously, as I know the agency does, the issue of how long processing takes. We know that there is more to do on that issue, and I meet the agency regularly to discuss that and the changes that have been made to improve it.

Aspects around processing times are published in official statistics, so—if you will forgive me, Mr Balfour—I will take a further look at the specific reference that you made and come back with any further clarification that might be needed on that point.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Child Poverty and Parental Employment Inquiry

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Ms Don or committee members will correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the focus in England is on working parents. If we are being asked to replicate what is happening down south, that would suggest taking away the offer that we have already made for people who are not in work, which would be of great concern to the Government.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Justice Priorities

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

The First Minister has made it clear, as cabinet secretaries do regularly, that we are in a challenging financial time and context, and, as a Government, we need to take that very seriously. Our medium-term financial strategy set out some of the challenges of, for example, sustained high inflation caused by the economic shocks that Scotland has faced. Inevitably, that has had an impact, so, yes, tough decisions will have to be made.

I will give an example of the context that we are in. As I think I mentioned in my introductory remarks, the block grant funding was 4.8 per cent lower in real terms at the time that this budget was set than it was in 2021-22. Therefore, clearly, there has been an impact on national Government because of the mini-budget, Brexit and austerity, which present us with that challenge.

Now that we have that context ahead of us, the First Minister has laid out for stakeholders how we can best use our resources, and we are trying hard to do that. I touched on some of the work that goes on in Government to ensure that we analyse how we are using the finances that we have in the right way through the best start, bright futures programme board, the ministerial group and so on to constantly check that we are using the money in the most effective way possible.

That will be on the minds of all cabinet secretaries as we move forward in the budget process to see what stakeholders are asking us to do and what we can do within the budget. That will require us to take tough decisions across Government. I cannot go into those today, as we are at the foothills of the budget process for next year, but that context will be live for us throughout the process.