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Displaying 1019 contributions
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
I will try to go through the main points that have been raised. I thank all members for the discussion, particularly on the Government amendments.
I will deal with the aspects that Meghan Gallacher raised about concerns over the removal of consultation. If the rent cap is included in the bill, as we intend it to be, there will be no need to consult on it, because it will have already been included in the bill.
Amendment 327 is technical.
Turning to issues raised by Katy Clark and others, I absolutely appreciate that there is a need to tackle the disrepair that exists in the private rented sector. As members will know, we will come on to discuss other groups of amendments that also deal with the issue of disrepair and the general standard of the private rented sector, where that is poor. I think that there are other ways of dealing with the challenge that Katy Clark has rightly put forward, and I am happy to continue to discuss the overall issue with her鈥攁nd, indeed, with the other members who have raised it with me both today and previously鈥攂oth in the run-up to stage 3 and in relation to the other groups that we will come on to.
Much of what Rachael Hamilton has discussed today is referred to in the current live consultation, so I very much recognise where she is coming from. The Minister for Housing has also agreed to engage with Scottish Land & Estates over the summer on the same aspects, so I am taking the issue that she has raised very seriously.
On the substantive issues that Maggie Chapman has raised about the rent cap formula, although I think that she and I are in exactly the same place in wanting to protect the most vulnerable tenants, this is one of those areas where I fundamentally disagree with her. I believe that we cannot protect the most vulnerable by creating a system that puts off investment and therefore the delivery of more homes鈥攖here is a balance to be struck between what we do to protect tenants and ensuring that we encourage investment and the building of more homes.
I hope that I can reassure her that repairing standard compliance would not be included in those circumstances in which rent could be increased above the cap, as set out in the consultation. Others might have different views on that, and I appreciate that the consultation is on-going, but, as I am sure will come through in that consultation, there is a discussion to be had about landlords making improvements to meet the sector鈥檚 minimum standards and those who might be investing heavily in modernisation or different types of work. As I have said, I am sure that those nuances will come through in the consultation.
As for having discussions on the formula that has been set out, I am happy to get back to and discuss the matter with Maggie Chapman before stage 3. However, according to the material that I have today and which I can highlight in these closing remarks, although CPI and wage growth can fluctuate relative to each other over time, the post-war experience has been that wages tend to grow faster than inflation in the long run. The 6 per cent cap also protects against situations, such as the recent cost of living crisis, in which a spike in inflation causes real wages to fall sharply. I go back to my point that the area needs to be clearly understood. I think that, at this point in time, this will just have to be one of those areas on which Ms Chapman and I will continue to disagree.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
Amendments 148, 149, 158 to 160 and 185 in the name of Maggie Chapman would collectively enable the Scottish ministers to designate the whole of Scotland as a national rent control area in certain circumstances.
Introducing rent controls interferes with the property rights of landlords and any interference must be proportionate. A national rent cap might be difficult to justify due to the varying social and economic circumstances across the country. The way that the amendments are drafted means that the safeguards for normal rent control areas would not apply. Without those safeguards, it might not be possible to impose a national rent cap that is proportionate.
The measures in the bill will create the framework to deliver a nationally consistent approach to the consideration of the need for rent control, while maintaining the link to local circumstances. That is an appropriate, robust way to deliver rent control in Scotland. Although I acknowledge that there could be circumstances in which the Scottish ministers might wish to consider wider temporary rent control measures, their powers under Maggie Chapman鈥檚 proposed amendments would be far too broad.
Our vision for a long-term system of rent controls that delivers a nationally consistent approach with flexibility for local circumstances is key. Should action on rents be required where there has been significant change in rent levels or in the rate of rent increases in the period between the five-yearly cycle of local authority assessments, there are already powers in the bill for local authorities to carry out an additional interim assessment of rent conditions in their area or for the Scottish ministers to direct a local authority to undertake such an assessment.
Were such extreme circumstances to arise in the future to necessitate a blanket national rent cap that would apply regardless of local circumstances, that would be a significant intervention, and it would not be appropriate for that to happen only through regulations. Such action should be subject to the full parliamentary scrutiny that is afforded to primary legislation, as was the case with the emergency legislation that was introduced by the Government in response to the Covid-19 pandemic.
I therefore cannot support amendments 148, 149, 158 to 160 and 185. I urge Maggie Chapman not to press amendment 148 and not to move those other amendments.
Amendments 186, 196 and 199, in the name of Maggie Chapman, would, essentially, reintroduce the temporary modifications to rent adjudication that were set out in the Rent Adjudication (Temporary Modifications) (Scotland) Regulations 2024, which expired at the end of March.
Although I recognise the good intent behind the amendments, and the desire to protect tenants from unreasonable in-tenancy rent increases, I cannot support them.
The temporary modifications were developed specifically to support the transition away from the emergency rent cap, which was introduced under the Cost of Living (Tenant Protection) (Scotland) Act 2022. Those temporary changes were part of that transition and were aimed at preventing a return to market rents in a single step where a tenant sought a review. They were not designed鈥攊ndeed, they would not have been able鈥攖o operate until rent control becomes operational.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
I thank Emma Roddick for that intervention and for all her work in this area. As I have just said to Alexander Stewart, I am keen to ensure that we strike the correct balance, and I am keen, too, for local authorities to have the powers to collect the necessary data to ensure that the legislation works effectively.
I take Emma Roddick鈥檚 point and acknowledge that she still has concerns about gaps and about the system not being robust enough. Indeed, that is exactly why I made the invitation that I made at the start of my opening remarks鈥擨 want to ensure that, regardless of where we end up with this discussion and with the amendments that will be voted on today and later this week, if concerns remain, we can have discussions about ensuring that we have robust data and a system that works effectively. I take the member鈥檚 point and, as I have said, I recognise that she remains concerned about the issue. We can certainly pick the issue up in discussions with local authorities over the summer.
Moving on, I thank Emma Roddick for lodging her amendments, and I appreciate the concerns on which she has based them. However, I have my own concerns about the proportionality of her amendments and about the resource burden that having to collect information from landlords on an on-going basis would place on local authorities. Therefore, I cannot support the amendments, but I hope that I can discuss the issues and work with her鈥攁nd, indeed, local authority colleagues鈥攐n them over the summer.
Amendment 109, in the name of Meghan Gallacher, would require the Scottish ministers to publish information that is collected under section 15. I recognise the usefulness of making data available鈥攊ndeed, amendment 328 has been lodged to support the publication of information鈥攂ut I do not consider it necessary or cost effective to publish each individual piece of information that is collected, so I cannot support Meghan Gallacher鈥檚 amendment. I come back to the principle of ensuring that we are not creating an overly complex or bureaucratic system that does not deliver value for money.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
Meghan Gallacher has made a useful point about what can and should be in the public domain. It is important that we open up the information and data that are collected鈥攊ndeed, that is why the Government has lodged the amendments鈥攁nd I look forward to her taking part in the discussions over the summer to ensure that we test the system. It is important that we are able to test it before stage 3 to ensure that members who still remain concerned about, say, the system not collecting enough information or it collecting too much information and being overly cumbersome can come and have that discussion with me. They will then be able to come back with amendments at stage 3, should they so wish.
Amendment 137, in the name of Emma Roddick, and amendment 237, in the name of Maggie Chapman, would increase the potential financial penalty on landlords for failure to comply with requests for information from 拢1,000 to 拢10,000. However, I note that my amendments 324 and 325 seek to remove and replace sections 16 and 17, as a result of information-gathering powers being conferred on the Scottish ministers by amendments in the group. Similarly, Maggie Chapman鈥檚 amendments 324A and 325A seek to increase the relevant penalty to 拢10,000. Unfortunately, I cannot support the amendments, as I consider that they set a penalty that is too high in the context of a landlord鈥檚 conduct. I still believe that 拢1,000 represents a more proportionate penalty.
On that basis, I ask Emma Roddick and Maggie Chapman not to move their amendments and to work with me ahead of stage 3 if they still have concerns on the issue. From the work that the Government has done on the matter, I remain convinced that the penalty is at the right level.
12:00Amendments 153 to 155, in the name of Edward Mountain, seek to make changes to the type of information that can be sought from landlords. I understand the purpose of the amendments, but I consider that amendments 305 to 313, in Paul McLennan鈥檚 name, provide a more comprehensive expansion of the list of information that can be requested from a landlord. The list that is proposed in amendments 305 to 313 is more consistent with the information that is collected by rent service Scotland to support decisions on rent adjudication. Amendments 305 to 313 are therefore more appropriate in the context of the information that is needed to support rent control, as they will deliver information that is more closely comparable with the data on advertised rents that rent service Scotland collects.
Amendments 156 and 157, in the name of Edward Mountain, would mean that the information that is requested by local authorities would be added to the landlord register. The primary purpose of landlord registration is to give councils a means to assess whether an individual is a fit and proper person to let property. I do not believe that adding that information to the landlord register would assist local authorities in making that assessment. The amendments could result in inconsistent information being held on different landlords, depending on whether a landlord has received a request for information. The amendments would also require further consequential amendments to the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004.
Although I acknowledge the intent behind the amendments and recognise that there could be benefits to using the landlord register as part of the data collection process, it is important to emphasise that the proposed changes would place significant additional burdens on landlords and on local authorities as operators of the landlord register. I do not consider that they are necessary in connection with rent control, and I believe that they could inadvertently make a fundamental change to the purpose of the landlord register without due consideration of the impact on its core purpose, which is ensuring that someone is a fit and proper person to be a landlord. Therefore, I cannot support the amendments.
Amendment 448, in the name of Maggie Chapman, would amend the bill to change the discretion of a local authority to a duty, which would mean that every local authority in Scotland would need to write to every landlord on the register to request all the information that is set out in section 15(2) of the bill. As I have previously set out, although I understand and support the strong desire for robust information about tenancies, I cannot support the amendment. It would remove the discretion of local authorities to seek the data that they deem to be necessary, and it would be costly and disproportionate to the level of data that is needed to inform rent control assessments.
Amendments 449 and 450, in the name of Maggie Chapman, would provide for data to be obtained from landlords for the purpose of being provided to the rent officer or the First-tier Tribunal to assist them in determining open market rent. It is not clear that that information is needed by rent officers or the First-tier Tribunal, as they already make determinations of open market rent without access to that information. It is also uncertain how such a process is intended to operate or how often information would be needed for that purpose. That would place an additional burden on local authorities, with potentially significant costs and no clear benefit, and I am unable to support the amendments.
Amendment 481, in the name of Carol Mochan, would require local authorities to provide the tenant with a copy of the information that they have obtained from a landlord. Although I recognise the intention behind the amendment, it would add a significant additional administrative burden and cost in relation to the collection of data. The concern is about the accuracy of the information that is provided by the landlord, but there are already powers in the bill for local authorities to request information from tenants. I therefore cannot support the amendment, as I do not believe that it is needed.
Amendment 482, also in the name of Carol Mochan, would remove the ability of the Scottish ministers to remove information from the list of information that can be requested from a landlord. That would remove the flexibility that the power was intended to create, and it would mean that primary legislation would be required to remove from that list any information that is no longer considered relevant. Regulations under section 15(7) are subject to the affirmative procedure, so there would be parliamentary scrutiny of any attempt to reduce the information that can be requested. I therefore cannot support amendment 482.
Finally, Carol Mochan鈥檚 amendments 483 to 486 would amend sections 16 and 17 of the bill to remove elements of discretion from the enforcement procedures behind the duties on landlords to provide information. Those amendments would remove an element of discretion from local authorities and, in certain cases, would create strict liability for a financial penalty, even when the First-tier Tribunal considered such a penalty to be inappropriate. I therefore cannot support those amendments.
Sections 15, 16 and 17 of the bill were drafted with the intention of ensuring that the powers for local authorities and the Scottish ministers support the collection of data on a proportionate basis and do not unnecessarily burden local authorities, landlords and tenants. My amendments in the group seek to enhance those powers while respecting the rights of landlords.
I understand the intent behind the amendments in the group, but I cannot support them, for the reasons that I have set out. I therefore urge Emma Roddick, Maggie Chapman, Edward Mountain, Carol Mochan and Meghan Gallacher not to move their amendments in the group and to work with me ahead of stage 3. If any of their amendments are moved, I ask members to oppose them and, instead, to support the amendments that have been lodged in the name of Paul McLennan.
I move amendment 303.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
I thank Alexander Stewart for that intervention鈥攈e is right to say that we must look at the practicalities. The intention of the Government鈥檚 amendments is to ensure that we have a robust set of data that will allow rent control to function effectively and efficiently. Regardless of whether members agree with rent control, the fact is that, if the bill is passed, we need the system to work effectively and efficiently, so we need to collect enough data for it to be robust. However, we are also required to ensure that we take a value-for-money approach and that we take cognisance of the impact on individual landlords, because we do not want to put them off entering or staying in the private rented sector.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
On the basis that Meghan Gallacher and I are keen to ensure that there is clarity on a number of issues in the bill, will she join me in recognising that the Government and鈥擨 hope鈥攈er party do not want to include purpose-built student accommodation in the bill? If anything has caused that to happen, I hope that members will be able to work together to rectify that at stage 3, if required.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
I hope that Willie Rennie heard me say in my remarks that I take the issue very seriously.
The points that he has raised are exceptionally important and have been made directly to me by the sector, loud and clear. I am keen to pick them up at speed in the consultation to provide clarity, just as I hope that I did last Thursday during portfolio questions, when I was absolutely clear that the Scottish Government has no intention of doing anything in the bill to bring in the PBSA sector. Indeed, if anything was done on that basis in last week鈥檚 committee meeting, we would work with members to seek to amend that at stage 3.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
Good morning. The amendments in this group relate to the amount by which landlords can increase rent, where a rent control area is in force, and include Government amendments in the name of Paul McLennan to set out the form of the rent cap in the bill. The amendments also touch on concerns about the impact of rent controls on the circumstances of individual landlords and where it might be appropriate to allow additional increases above the level of the cap. I recognise those concerns, and I continue to engage with landlord representative organisations and others in the sector.
Section 14 of the bill includes a power for Scottish ministers to make regulations that allow for rents to be increased above the level of the rent cap in specified cases. The aim is to ensure that, where appropriate, the individual circumstances of landlords who might be disproportionately impacted by rent control can be taken into account. I fully agree on the importance of providing clarity to the sector as soon as possible about how that will be accomplished, and I recognise that some stakeholders would prefer that that detail was set out in primary legislation. However, it is essential that decisions on that are informed by consultation, to ensure that the potential impact of the use of that power is fully understood and that measures are developed in a way that is fair, is robust against challenge and can be clearly set out in legislation.
I have listened to the calls for clarity from tenants, landlords and investors about the implementation of rent control, which is why the Scottish Government has recently published a consultation to support the consideration of how the regulation-making powers could be used. That will ensure that the impact of any decisions on the use of those powers is fully understood and that any measures are framed in a way that is clear and proportionate. Bringing forward the consultation to a point before the time when it might have been anticipated鈥攆or example after the bill had completed its passage through the Parliament鈥攚ill allow us to provide the clarity that is being sought as soon as possible and will support us to bring forward any secondary legislation at the earliest opportunity following royal assent.
I want to make it clear that I am completely convinced of the need to use powers in the bill to exempt, where appropriate, certain categories of property from rent control and to allow rent increases above the level of the cap in certain circumstances. That is important to ensure that we continue to encourage investment in Scotland and in housing. However, that must be supported by consultation that ensures that the impact of any such measures is fully understood and that our actions do not create any unintended consequences, taking into account the views of everyone with an interest.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
I give the absolute assurance that the consultation is due to close soon and that we anticipate it to be one of the absolute priorities of the Government to move forward with the analysis of the consultation responses and the regulations thereafter. I absolutely wish to reiterate the importance of moving at pace on this matter, which is why we brought the timescale for the consultation forward. The consultation has happened at this point to ensure that we provide clarity as soon as we possibly can. I absolutely accept that that is integral to encouraging investment in housing.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 13 May 2025
Shirley-Anne Somerville
May I just come in on that point?