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The next item of business is consideration of the draft Protected Trust Deeds (Miscellaneous Amendment) (Scotland) Regulations 2024. The committee has received representations from the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland setting out its concerns about the draft regulations, which members might want to ask questions about.

I welcome to the meeting Ivan McKee, who is the Minister for Public Finance. The minister is joined by Scottish Government officials Amy Burns, who is the protected trust deed team leader, and Graham Fisher, who is a deputy director in the legal directorate, and by Fiona Henry, who is the policy development manager at the Accountant in Bankruptcy. I invite the?minister to make a short opening statement.

Thank you, minister. As you stated, there is a disability employment gap and we have made progress since 2014, but how can we make further progress to ensure that we meet the target? We have heard evidence that there has been an increase in people who are already in employment who declare as having a disability.

We have also heard that we have made quite a lot of progress with people with physical disabilities, but evidence from the Fair Work Convention and from the Fraser of Allander Institute suggests that people with learning disabilities are not making the same progress. Are you confident that policy decisions are responsive and flexible enough? We have made progress and do not want to plateau. How do we reach our target? Where else do we need to make changes and investment?

We have an idea of what bodies are involved. The larger point with regard to who they are is that membership is weighted towards creditors and only two money advice sector bodies are represented. We raised concerns about unintended consequences and the degree of consultation that has taken place.

Before I bring in Kevin Stewart, I have a follow-up to Murdo Fraser’s question. The fair start Scotland funding was replaced by the no one left behind funding. It is difficult to compare the figures, because the no one left behind funding is devolved to local authorities, and the Institute For Public Policy Research has raised questions around transparency. Both sets of figures tend to show a reasonable amount of job starts, but the numbers tail off for people still being in employment after three months, six months and 12 months: the numbers reduce. We can get a decent amount of people in work, but how do we keep them in employment? This is about retention. The first question was about barriers to achieving the target. Do you recognise trying to retain people in employment as being a feature of supporting people into employment? What can be done to address that?

Our next item of business is an evidence session with the minister on the committee’s inquiry into the disability employment gap. This is the final evidence session. I again welcome Tom Arthur, the Minister for Employment and Investment, who is joined by Stephen Garland, who is a senior policy officer and Clare Reddington, who is deputy director for employability, both from the Scottish Government.

I invite the minister to make a short opening statement.

As you have recognised, this is quite an unorthodox approach. It is not ideal that, this morning, we are dealing with regulations that come with an intention to amend them.

You said that there was a legal responsibility and that the deadline required you to produce the code as soon as is reasonably practicable. Is there an argument that “reasonably practicable” could be interpreted as meaning that you should produce the code once you have made the amendments or had the chance to do the focused consultation? Why are we having to deal with this process this morning, rather than leaving it until after recess?

One approach would be to come at the issue from a rights perspective. Article 27 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities recognises

“the right of persons with disabilities to work, on an equal basis with others”.

We are anticipating the introduction in Scotland of a human rights bill and a neurodivergence bill, which are relevant in that regard. Do you see the establishment of stronger rights for people with disabilities to access employment as a lever that could help to smooth out some of the issues around the postcode lottery or variation? Rather than prescribing what local authorities or anyone else must deliver, you could set out the right that must be delivered.

I have a couple of questions before I bring in other members. You referred to a further SSI. Can you give us a timescale for when you anticipate that being introduced?

I know that other members will want to ask about the concerns that have been raised, but you have recognised that there are quite strong views around the pubs code. Do you feel that the focused consultation will be able to resolve the situation so that we end up with a code that everybody is happy with? So far, that has not been achievable.

I will bring in some other members now, but I might come back in later. I call Maggie Chapman, to be followed by Murdo Fraser.

Issues have been raised about the implementation gap. We took evidence from the Scottish Commission for People with Learning Disabilities about its 2018 report on pathways to employment. It said that what it found in that report, which talked about job coaching and becoming a profession, is still relevant. Does the minister have any concerns about that?

We have talked about a number of reviews, and it is important to review to make sure that we are heading in the right direction, but there is concern that there is a lack of action and implementation, because we spend a lot of time reflecting, reviewing and coming up with different strategies. That organisation said that what it said in 2018 is still relevant now, and that it could see more progress. That follows on from Gordon MacDonald’s question about the 2022 report and what progress there has been since.

Everybody is bringing out recommendations and suggestions, but there is some frustration on the ground. What the minister said this morning is positive, and we have seen positive examples, but the general mood during the inquiry is one of frustration and not enough being done quickly enough.