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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 August 2025
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Displaying 830 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Acts Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

I suspect that we may have to agree to disagree on that particular point.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Acts Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

Thank you for that response. We have seen from the discussion around the rules on self-isolation this week that the Scottish public have complied very well with the public health guidance. When the Prime Minister announced that the self-isolation rules for England would be dropped, a lot of criticism was made of him in some quarters, and some people seemed oblivious of the fact that, in Scotland, there has never been a legal requirement to self-isolate following a positive test, except in the very limited circumstances of international travellers. I think that we are in a good place in terms of the public.

The reason why I ask the question, as you can imagine, is that we have an instrument to consider shortly on extending the extraordinary powers that the Scottish Government currently has for a further six months. Given that we know that the Scottish public responds very well to public health advice, why can we not just trust people to follow the advice because we know that they will do so, rather than having those legal powers continue?

10:45  

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

Good morning. My first question is for Dr Thomson, in relation to the written submission that you have made on behalf of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine.

I was very struck by the comments that you made about the impact of delays in patients being admitted to emergency departments. You highlighted ambulance stacking. We know that there are delays with ambulances being able to attend and ambulances queueing up outside emergency departments. You go on to say that your estimate is that, in 2021, delays in admissions equated to more than 500 excess deaths in Scotland. That is an extraordinary and extremely worrying statistic. That means that 10 people a week are dying because they cannot get treatment in time. Can you tell us more about how you arrived at that figure and what its impact is?

09:15  

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

Thank you, Dr Thomson, that was a helpful response. There are a couple of things in what you said that I want to follow up on.

Clearly, we have had a big problem over the past two years with intensive care unit beds being taken up by Covid patients. It seems that that is now on a downward trend, which is very positive. What have you picked up over the past few weeks about future trends? Do you expect the issue with delayed admission to start to work itself through, or is it with us for the longer term?

I have a second question, which I will ask now, to save time. There is clearly a workforce issue—that was mentioned in an earlier discussion in response to a question from the convener. You make the point in your submission that, even before Covid, emergency departments were “understaffed and under-resourced”. How do we solve that in the short term? Recruitment takes time; Dr Shackle said that it takes 10 years to train a general practitioner. I imagine that it takes a similar length of time to train staff in emergency medicine. Even if we started ramping up recruitment now, it would take a long time to work through the system. We probably cannot recruit from other countries, because they face exactly the same challenges that we are facing—quite apart from there being ethical issues in bringing to Scotland medical staff who have been trained in poorer countries. What more can be done to address the staffing issue and help us, without our having to wait 10 years for more medical staff to be trained here?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

Thank you, Dr Thomson. I have one more question—I am happy to open it up to other witnesses to get their perspectives. You have talked about the importance of retaining staff. Anecdotally, we hear that there is a huge issue across the NHS with burnout among staff who have had to live through the past two years of Covid. That has probably accelerated the trend of people seeking to take early retirement. Is that your perspective? If so, what practical steps could the Scottish Government and the NHS take to encourage people to stay on?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Excess Deaths Inquiry

Meeting date: 24 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

I think that Professor Elder was hoping to come in.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

I will start by picking up on the convener’s last point, about a return to office working. It is fair to say that many employers will be moving to a hybrid model. What are the Scottish Government’s own plans in that regard?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

You would expect more than 5 per cent of staff to come to the office.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

I will ask Professor Leitch a separate question. We have heard a lot in the past week or so about the BA.2 subvariant of omicron. How worried should we be about it?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 3 February 2022

Murdo Fraser

Thank you. That is helpful. If somebody has had BA.1, can they then be infected with BA.2?