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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 August 2025
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Displaying 881 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

On your last question, the answer is no, not necessarily. However, I recognise the pressures that the public sector is facing, not just at central Government level but at local government level, and the particular challenges that that creates for our colleagues in local government.

As the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy set out last week, we have delivered as fair a funding package for local government as we are able to do in the challenging financial environment in which we are operating. However, it is also worth keeping in mind that local authorities have faced financial challenges for a number of years and have been making good progress in tackling climate change by committing to significant reductions in emissions over recent years. I recognise and understand that there will be challenges for them, but that does not necessarily mean that they will not be able to make progress in tackling climate change.

I will pick up on a couple of examples of how local authorities will benefit from investment. Active travel will have a significant benefit in local communities. It will help to tackle congestion in towns and cities across the country. The budget line in that area is increasing substantially to support the roll-out of active travel.

Alongside that, the investment that we are putting into the decarbonisation of heating systems and improving energy efficiency will have a marked improvement on social housing stock, some of which local authorities are responsible for managing. Again, that is an area in which budgets are increasing.

I understand and recognise the challenges that local authorities face, but I do not accept that that means that they will be not able to make progress in tackling some of the climate change challenges that we face. Some of the investments that we are making at a national level will have benefits at a local level as well.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

Our commitment is to deliver 250,000 hectares of peatland restoration between now and 2030. We are committed to taking forward around 20,000 hectares of peatland restoration a year on average. In 2020, we announced a 10-year funding package of 拢250 million to help to support that and deliver that target. This year, the budget provides 拢23.7 million for peatland restoration, which is an increase of 8 per cent on last year鈥檚 budget. Since 2012, we have invested around 拢30 million.

The 50,000 hectares figure was not taken into account in this year鈥檚 budget, because our target is 250,000 hectares between now and 2030. We have asked NatureScot to carry out some analysis of the Climate Change Committee鈥檚 proposed figure and to consider other innovative ways in which we could help to expand our existing target in order to address that committee鈥檚 suggested target. That work has just been completed and submitted to the Government. We are considering the recommendations, and we will then consider whether we have to make further investment and whether we have to change our approach to peatland restoration.

This year鈥檚 budget is based on our target of 250,000 hectares. Pending NatureScot鈥檚 recommendations, we will look at whether we need to take further measures to help to extend our target and how we could go about doing that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

The Scottish National Investment Bank does not sit in my portfolio, so I do not know the rationale behind that, what its investment profile is, and what it requires. However, I am more than happy to take that question away and get further details for you.

You may be aware that the Scottish National Investment Bank is going through quite a detailed regulatory process of considering how it can raise private finance. I hope that, in the next couple of years, we will see more private finance being levered into it.

I am not sighted on the specific reasons for that decline, because the Scottish National Investment Bank does not sit directly in my portfolio, but I would be more than happy to write to the committee about that.

10:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

A carbon assessment is carried out for the budget and published. That is a statutory requirement for each budget. We also measure our progress against our climate change targets through our climate change update plan and the various portfolio envelopes that need to be progressed to make sure that we are on track for 2030 and 2045. We measure using a combination of the carbon assessment that is carried out for the budget and our monitoring and evaluation process for the climate change update plan.

You will be aware of the work that the Fraser of Allander Institute is carrying out to look at how we can get greater transparency on the contribution that budgets make to meeting our climate change targets. It would be extremely helpful if we had a more robust and effective system to be able to monitor the impact of the budget on our climate change targets. I hope that the work that the Fraser of Allander Institute produces will help us to develop a framework that will give more transparency for the committee and accountability to the Parliament, and give us greater insight into the direct impact of the budget.

Broadly, the update plan and the carbon assessment that is carried out for the budget are the two things that we currently rely on.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

That fund does not sit directly in my portfolio; it sits in the finance portfolio. The 拢20 million is some of the initial allocation to take forward work on developing the action plan that will deliver the transition plan for the north-east and Moray. We have given a commitment to take that forward on a co-production basis, so local stakeholders will be able to shape how the funding is used. Some of the money will initially help to carry out that work. How the money will then be allocated and utilised will be informed by the co-production work and the input from local stakeholders on how that will be shaped. I expect the details of that to be set out in the next financial year.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

I recognise that we need to do a significant amount of work to get back on track to meet those targets. They are tough targets鈥攔ightly so鈥攁nd we need to do better to make sure that we achieve them. My colleague Lorna Slater is working hard to ensure that we take forward the right measures to do that. That is why we have made a commitment to develop the waste route map鈥攖o ensure that we are clear on the tangible progress that we must make over the next couple of years to get us on track.

You said that the budget for Zero Waste Scotland has been relatively stable. It is 8 per cent higher in this financial year than it was in 2020-21. We have increased our level of expenditure on that area over recent years. Alongside that, we committed 拢70 million for the recycling improvement fund, of which some 拢20 million was allocated last year to a number of local authority partners to take forward strategic investments in recycling infrastructure.

It is not just about finance. We also need to see the circular economy as an economic opportunity. We get clear environmental benefits from recycling, but we also need to look at the economic opportunities associated with it. We will do that through the route map that we are looking to develop and our portfolio work on the circular economy. The intended circular economy bill is all about making sure that we seize not just the environmental but the economic benefits that can come from developing and expanding our circular economy overall.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

There are two parts to the green jobs fund. Some 拢50 million has been baselined for our enterprise agencies and some 拢50 million is held at Government level. We are undertaking work with businesses to set the criteria to ensure that the fund is aligned with needs in the sector. That will allow businesses to start applying for funding in the new financial year.

For the record, convener, that area of policy does not sit in my portfolio; it sits with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy. However, the approach that has been taken is to have two tranches of funding鈥攐ne run by the enterprise agencies and the other at national Government level.

The work to set the application process criteria is being done through engagement with the business sector, to make sure that the fund aligns with the skills that the sector requires, to help us to deliver more green jobs.

I cannot give you the figures for the enterprise agencies but I would be more than happy to take that question away and to respond in writing to Ms Lennon鈥檚 point, if the committee would be content with that.

10:15  

There is no clear definition of what a green job is. There are competing views on what should be defined as a green job. The Scottish Government is undertaking some work, through engagement with a variety of stakeholders, to try to arrive at a shared, agreed position on what could be classified as a green job. What we classify as a green job might not necessarily reflect what other countries would consider to be a green job, so we need to make sure that we have an inclusive definition. That piece of work is being done just now so that we have that shared and agreed understanding, which will then allow us to understand the progress that we are making in delivering greater numbers of green jobs.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

Convener, we are stretching the definition of my portfolio responsibilities here, but I am more than happy to take that question away.

There is a system for agencies to have business continuity and recovery plans in place. I am more than happy to take that question away and come back to the committee with some more detailed written information on that. When I was justice secretary, I was involved in working on the cyberattack on the national health service here in Scotland and across the UK. A number of hospitals and other NHS facilities were targeted, and I remember dealing with the Home Secretary of the time on some of our approaches to tackling those attacks. The role of the NCSC is to identify risks and provide advice and information, and a range of work was carried out off the back of those attacks.

I would be more than happy to come to the committee with more specific details about the internal processes for managing cybersecurity in public agencies.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

I hope that we are in the recovery phase, even though we are still in the pandemic. We want our public transport system to recover. The reduction in passenger numbers over the course of the pandemic has had a significant financial impact on the sector, which has resulted in the need for a significant level of financial investment from the Scottish Government to support the sector. Railways are very resource intensive. They are expensive to run. They are fixed assets, and a lot of money had to be provided to sustain and support services even at a reduced level.

10:30  

In the draft budget, therefore, we have continued to take account of some of the potential impacts of Covid on farebox revenue for both bus and rail. There are risks. We are in the realms of the unknown. Although rail leisure journeys are returning pretty much to pre-pandemic levels鈥攖hey are probably not quite there, but they are similar鈥攃ommuter journeys are nowhere near that. In bus travel, there is some level of recovery. It is probably recovering more quickly than rail but, again, it is not back up to pre-pandemic levels.

There are still financial pressures on the public transport network as a result of the loss of farebox revenue. During the course of the financial year, therefore, depending on what recovery in the public transport system and farebox revenue looks like, we may have to flex some of our budget to take account of that.

We are literally in the realms of the unknown, because we do not know how quick and to what extent the recovery will be over the course of the next financial year.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Scottish Budget 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Michael Matheson

Another example could relate to district heating systems. Trying to facilitate and bring together a scheme of that nature would require resource support to get all the interested parties together. I will take that away and come back to you with more details on specific funding pots that might be available at the national level which community-based organisations could apply to.

You will be aware of the climate hubs that we are creating to try to help to create a much more sustainable approach to changing local communities to tackle the climate emergency. The first two are already up and running. We also have plans to roll out further climate towns. That might be one route for some towns and communities, but it might not always be the case. I can get further details on that for you and on other funding pots that might be available.

It is also worth thinking about funding pots that might not sit in my portfolio and that can help to deliver programmes that assist us in meeting our net zero targets. The funding will not all come through my portfolio; some of it will sit in other portfolios. I can take that away and ask officials to pull together some of the details for you.