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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 10 August 2025
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Displaying 881 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Role of Local Government in Delivering Net Zero

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

I find that the challenge at times is that there can be an expectation that tackling climate change is someone else’s responsibility and that “someone else will do it for me”. I have always emphasised that we all have to take individual responsibility and collectively we will achieve these targets. It is about making sure that we utilise the input that we get from things like the citizens assemblies and the process that we go through there. That input should help to formulate our thinking and our planning and policies so that people can see that there is clear cause and effect from engaging in the process. If we are to achieve the big behaviour change that is necessary, people need to feel as though they are part of that and that they have a responsibility, so individual responsibility and the role that individuals play is important in achieving net zero.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Programme for Government

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

The work on our energy strategy refresh and just transition plan has already started and will be published by the end of this year. Some of the documentation and consultation processes have already started to be put in place, and the draft strategy will be published by the end of this year. We have already had engagement with some stakeholders to help to shape that work.

It will be a whole-system approach, looking at every aspect of the system over the years ahead and how we can maximise economic benefits to Scotland in delivering energy decarbonisation. Of course, there will also be the first of our just transition plans, which will be energy specific and will sit alongside the strategy. Engagement work on that has already started with key stakeholders to inform the process.

The current energy price crisis predates the illegal invasion of Ukraine. It began when the economy started opening up last year, when demand increased to a level that started to push up wholesale gas prices internationally. The issue intensified and became even more acute with the illegal invasion of and war in Ukraine. The reality is that, given the way in which wholesale gas prices are set, there is very little that any individual country can do to offset the issue by increasing its gas output.

As things stand, the North Sea Transition Authority says that everything in the North Sea is at capacity—there is nothing spare. To bring anything online will take years. Will it have an impact on wholesale gas prices? No, because the wholesale gas price is set at international level. While the market remains tight and demand remains high, the issue will continue, no matter what. We do not have sufficient supplies to alter the situation—that view is widely held and recognised as being the case.

How do we reduce dependency on fossil fuels such as gas? How do we reduce the risk in that regard, given the international forces that set the price? The way to do that is to decarbonise at a faster rate, and that is about rolling out renewables much more quickly and reducing our dependency on fuels for which the price is set at an international level. Making ourselves more dependent on renewable energy will help to give us energy security and to reduce the cost, because it is a cheaper form of energy production.

I agree with the view of the then UK Government energy secretary, Kwasi Kwarteng, who is now the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who said that the answer is faster decarbonisation of our energy system. That remains the case, and that is the way to address the issue.

On the reserved issues and the announcement of a new licensing round for offshore oil and gas in the UK sector, my challenge—the UK Government disputes this—is that, although the measure is presented as being necessary to address energy security and high energy prices, it will not have an impact on either of those, because of the timeline. The Climate Change Committee has said that the average time that it takes to go from an exploration licence to a production licence is about 28 years, so that approach will not help with energy costs now or in the near future. At the same time, it is producing a form of energy where the price is set at an international level.

Therefore, faster decarbonisation is the answer, and the quickest way to do that is through renewables. Onshore and offshore wind is the fastest way to deploy renewable generation across the UK and across Europe as a whole. Scotland is blessed by having some fantastic natural resources to be able to do that, to help to decarbonise not just Scotland and the rest of the UK but potentially other parts of Europe, through the export opportunities.

There needs to be a clearer focus on the ramping up and roll-out of renewable energy as the way to tackle the cost of energy and to deliver energy security in future.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Programme for Government

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

We will be happy to come back to the committee to give you some more specifics on the timeframe.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Programme for Government

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

I will have to come back to the committee on the specific timescale. I do not have that to hand.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Programme for Government

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

I recognise the challenges that some people in our fishing communities face. Marine protected areas, highly protected marine areas, renewables and offshore oil and gas all impact on fishing communities and fishing grounds, which is in addition to the challenges that they have around accessing certain fish. It is important that, as we move forward with the development of the marine plan, we fully engage them in that process. You will recognise that we must manage a lot of competing interests, but their concerns and the issues that they have must be a central part of our consideration.

I will ask David Pratt to say a bit more about how we will take forward the marine plan, but there is no doubt in my mind that we must ensure that our fishing communities are a key part of how we consult and engage in that process, given the many competing challenges that we face in our marine sector.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Programme for Government

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

As part of climate adaptation, there is a need for better planning and management around flooding. We can see that that is increasingly becoming a challenge for some local authority areas. Part of the challenge to date is that flood management has often been focused on a particular flooding event. A key part of what we are looking to do with the revision of the strategy—or with the plan around the strategy—is to take a much more holistic approach in dealing with flood management, so that we look at the wider issues that impact on and cause flooding, rather than just at individual instances and events. That is why we are taking this piece of work forward, which will be in partnership with local authorities and other stakeholders, including the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, which all have a part to play in tackling that increasing problem.

The other part to this is how flooding occurs. There are now many more localised intense weather events that last short periods. Those events often overwhelm the existing flood management infrastructure. That is why we must look at some of the wider measures that need to be put in place around that. We intend to achieve that through our work on how we can better develop flood planning with stakeholders.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Role of Local Government in Delivering Net Zero

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

One of the aspects of this is to try to pool proposals that some small local authorities may have that would not be attractive to private sector investors on their own, where several local authorities might be looking at doing something. Take, for example, somewhere like Forth Valley, with Falkirk Council probably trying to do something on its own but possibly working in partnership with Stirling and Clackmannanshire Councils and maybe West Lothian Council as well. Bringing together collective proposals is one of the mechanisms to try to help it work better for smaller local authorities.

Even for some of our big local authorities, operating on their own for the scale of investment that they are looking for is probably not viable. Some will probably have to think about working in partnership with other big local authorities to get the scale that some private sector investors are looking for.

I will need to take de-risking away. Finance colleagues lead on this matter. I am more than happy to take that away to look at what we are doing to try to help to de-risk some of the challenges. I know about some of the work that the Scottish Futures Trust is doing to try to de-risk EV charging for local authorities and the private sector investment in that, but I am more than happy to take away the issue about reducing the risk. On your other question about local authority propositions that are in the GIP, I am more than happy to take that away and come back with some details on what propositions are there.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Role of Local Government in Delivering Net Zero

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

Sure. I am happy to do that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Role of Local Government in Delivering Net Zero

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

You see it happening in some local authorities. With the scale and level of investment that has now gone into aspects of active travel, you can see the considerable levels of ambition that some local authorities have on helping to get the right active travel infrastructure in place. It partly reflects the significant increase in funding that we are making available to active travel and the priorities that we have set out in the NTS and the investment hierarchy and the transport hierarchy.

You can see it by some of the ways in which local authorities are looking at the future delivery of transport provision within their areas and at different models and different approaches to take it forward. We see some real ambition being set out by local authorities.

Is there more that I would like to see happening in some local authorities? Absolutely. A lot of it is sometimes dependent upon individual officers and their desire to pursue particular policy areas. However, we are starting to see aspects of the NTS hierarchy becoming real policy on the ground, particularly in areas such as active travel and looking at wider transport provision within local authorities. I expect that to continue to develop, given the level of funding that we are putting into it in the coming years.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Role of Local Government in Delivering Net Zero

Meeting date: 27 September 2022

Michael Matheson

I gave a commitment to the committee earlier in the year to give you an update, which I am about to provide this week. I hope that it will give you much more detail on how the organisation will be taken forward and how it will operate. I hope that the committee will find it useful, given that I gave a commitment to provide that further detail. That information will be with you shortly.

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