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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 878 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

Yes, but do you think that amending the bill to give clarity to that would be helpful?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

Okay. That is very clear.

Sarah-Jane, I want to go back to your comment that you were surprised that the Scottish Government had—I think that I am paraphrasing—flipped the process and placed the obligation on the seller. Had it been considering that the process should be based on the purchaser?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

Yes, we are getting into the weeds of how the system would operate, rather than considering the principle of whether there should be a transfer test or a public interest test. There would be greater transparency in being up front in saying that there will be a public interest test, rather than a transfer test, which is a bit non-specific.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

Do you think that that was too high?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

You would be open to the idea of a longer-term plan rather than a five-year plan.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

My understanding of trying to manage land is that it is done over a long period of time. By its very nature, it is much more efficient and effective to do it that way. For example, forestry plans are for 15 or 20 years, and so on. Long-term plans therefore make more sense.

However, if you commit to the idea of long-term plans, consistency of approach is needed over a long period of time, which means that, if land changes hands or the land use changes, which changes the plan, that undermines the purpose of doing it over a longer period of time.

I hear the concerns about the cost that might be associated with that, which is why I am wondering whether making the plan for a longer period of time, while ensuring that the obligations that are set out in that plan are carried forward by anyone who takes over the land while the plan is being implemented, would help to improve land management in the long term and reduce some of the regulatory burden that it might create.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

You might not want obligations, but some people might.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

I think that you are confused about what I am trying to get at. Perhaps it is the way in which I have phrased it to you. When I use the term “obligation”, you seem to be thinking about it from a legal perspective—that is, being legally liable to ensure that something is implemented. What I am trying to understand is whether you are clear about what a land management plan is, what it is there to achieve, how much value it has in the long term, whether there is a requirement for the plan to be taken forward and, if it is not taken forward, what the implications of that are. After all, the danger is that, if we do not get the four or five criteria correct, it becomes a futile process.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

What do you mean by “managed as a whole”?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

Michael Matheson

What if you were the third-largest landholder or owner in Scotland but each of the individual sites that you owned did not trigger the threshold for a land management plan? Should such a landholder or owner be responsible for bringing forward a land management plan?