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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 December 2025
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Displaying 1037 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

I come back to Shivali Fifield. I want to understand fully your explanation regarding the issue of liability.

If an employee, under your definition of 鈥渨orker鈥濃擨 am not too sure how you would create that definition鈥攚ere to act in such a way and commit an act that constitutes ecocide under the bill, and they are found to have done so and the case is proven, who, on the basis of how you are trying to amend the bill, should go to prison for 20 years?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

I am hearing from some of you a feeling that the bill is not necessary, while some are seeking further guidance or explanation about some of the bill鈥檚 provisions. It is worth reflecting on the fact that this is not a regulation-making bill; it is a bill that would create a criminal offence. The guidance and explanatory notes associated with the bill will take you only so far, because the real definition will be set by the courts and some terms will be defined by the courts if the bill is passed.

Is it your contention that the existing regulatory framework for dealing with environmental offences is sufficient? If it is not sufficient, where are the gaps that should be addressed so that the bill would be unnecessary?

I put that question to you first, Jonnie.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Catherine McWilliam?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Jonnie Hall, do you have a view?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Okay.

The bill also makes provision around vicarious liability. I will come to you first on this, Jonnie. We heard evidence from panel 1, earlier this morning, that suggested that the vicarious liability provided for in a piece of wildlife legislation, and the changes that it led to, resulted in a culture change in the sector. Is that your experience?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Do the witnesses have any other comments on that? No. That is me, convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

That would be helpful.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

I understand the concept and importing an example to fit that concept, but we do not know whether the definition in the bill would have applied to the circumstances of the example that you have given. Is that correct?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Shivali, given your interest in Scots environmental law, do you have a view on that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Thanks.