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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 June 2025
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Displaying 2332 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Does that assessment process work? There is an assessment of whether there is an alternative, and then there is an assessment of whether an impact can be mitigated. After that, as you say, you get down to the question of whether it is still in the public interest that the development should go ahead. Is that working? Clearly, the bill gives ministers the opportunity to try something different. I am coming back to your earlier point. Is there a need to change this bit of the law? I am interested in your thoughts on that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

So, is the concern about the breadth of that consistency? It could be about having submissions in PDF format or it could be about a fundamental reform.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

The purpose in section 3(c) is to

“ensure consistency or compatibility with other legal regimes”.

You have mentioned some of the changes in other parts of the UK, with environmental outcome reports and so on. Do you have thoughts about that purpose? Is that a good purpose for changing things right now?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

That is an option, so ministers could decide—

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Does anyone else have thoughts on section 3(b)?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Do you think that the targets, as set out, will drive that joint working?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

What do you think that it means? Is the concern that people would spend a lot of time measuring things and not acting? I do not quite understand that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

I want to go back to the issue of the topic areas that were effectively dropped by the Government throughout the consultation on and development of the bill. I want to get your reflections on why those specific areas were dropped. I guess you can argue that you can approach mainstreaming in different ways, and Rob Brooker has already said that there is an element of incorporating that into the issue of environmental conditions as well. However, I am interested in some of the other areas, such as investment. There is no target for investment. Why do you think that the Government has decided to draw the line under the targets for areas in the bill?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

I would like to go into a little bit more detail in this area. You will be aware that section 3 of the bill spells out the purposes for which ministers might use powers to amend both the EIA legislation and the habitats regulations. As you have already alluded to, the purposes, which are covered in sections 3(a) to 3(f), are pretty extensive, and I want to ask about a couple of them.

The purpose that is set out in section 3(b), which you have already touched on, is

“to facilitate progress toward any statutory target relating to the environment, climate or biodiversity that applies in Scotland ... including, in particular ... net zero”.

I am interested in getting some more thoughts on that, particularly in relation to the way that the habitats regulations currently operate, because I understand that a public interest test can be applied in that regard. I am interested in your thoughts generally on that purpose and on how the habitats regulations interpret other existential environmental concerns, such as climate change, and how that public interest test works. Does it work, or is there a case for reform? Is there an inherent conflict with what Governments are trying to do in relation to climate and nature?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

On the back of that, I am interested in your thoughts on just transition. There are sectors of the economy that will have to change substantially, such as scallop dredging inshore and livestock production in areas where, if there was herbivore reduction, we could see large-scale nature restoration and woodland creation. There are difficult economic issues about how those sectors will transition away from what they are currently doing and take the jobs and skills with them—with people and with communities.

Is there enough of a focus? I think that one of the subject areas for targets that was dropped was citizen engagement, which, for me, is about just transition. There are some thorny issues in here around action and what prevents action. I am interested in your perspectives, looking at environmental change as academics, on where you see that societal change process and how you facilitate that—or is that more of a subject for colleagues in other departments?