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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Is that being done as a result of incidents such as the murders of David Amess and Jo Cox?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Tax revenue is going up because of fiscal drag as much as anything else. The gap needs to close so that the amount that is raised in extra taxes is spent on services, because only half is being spent on services at the moment.

On a very much related issue, in education, the workforce, infrastructure and digital budget has more than doubled—it has increased by 114 per cent to £586 million. I am not sure what that entails, so you might want to provide a wee bit more detail, but the increase certainly seems very positive.

However, college budgets have been reduced yet again—according to Audit Scotland, they have fallen by 17 per cent in real terms in four years. In my area, Ayrshire College needs additional revenue to deliver 250 training places for the aerospace sector. It is anticipated that, over the next few years, 3,500 jobs will be created at Hunterston, backed by £3.5 billion of investment. However, at present, Ayrshire College faces reducing the number of engineering apprentices, despite employers requesting 50 more places than have been funded.

I take on board what you have said about money going into areas such as reducing child poverty, but people in deprived areas who could have opportunities to get high-quality engineering apprenticeships are not getting them because such apprenticeships are not being funded properly. How do we boost the economy, close the employment gap and give people a better future if Ayrshire College and others are expected to make year-on-year savings by reducing the number of engineering apprenticeships, for example?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Surely we could close the gap much more quickly if we invested in more wealth-creating areas. I am sorry—I should have let you finish your answer.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

One interesting thing about office-holders is that we have received reports from committees on their office-holder responsibilities and it looks as though the committees’ collective view is that they do not have time to scrutinise the office-holders effectively. In fact, the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman has even suggested that the Finance and Public Administration Committee should undertake scrutiny of the ombudsman. How do you feel about the level of scrutiny, given that, for example, the £2 million relating to the Electoral Commission was not identified?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I might come to that in a wee second. However, I am concerned about the £1,820 tuition fee. To me, it seems nonsensical—as does the fact that ministers have not taken a pay rise for 18 years—that it has remained the same for 18 years. How is that helping universities? Surely, if Scottish universities are getting the same amount of money and it declines year on year due to inflation, that incentivises them not to take Scottish students. That cannot be right. You said that that is under review, but there is no evidence that it is changing.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I do not even recall being offered it, to be honest, so apologies on that front. Maybe members will take up that offer. We will discuss it afterwards.

One of the projects is changes to the Business Bulletin, with a forecast cost of £378,000. That is almost starting to move into upgraded website territory in terms of money. Why would you spend £378,000 on changing the Business Bulletin?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for that. All colleagues wish to ask questions, the first of whom is Craig Hoy.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2025 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. We have received apologies from Michelle Thomson.

The first item on our agenda is an evidence-taking session on the Scottish budget 2025-26 from two panels of witnesses. First, we will hear from the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body on its budget bid, and then we will take evidence from the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government.

I welcome our first panel of witnesses. Jackson Carlaw MSP, member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, is joined by Scottish Parliament officials David McGill, clerk and chief executive, and Sara Glass, director of finance and resilience. I intend to allow around 75 minutes for the session.

I invite Mr Carlaw to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Craig Hoy’s question prompted me to recall that, in 2000, John Swinney turned down a £21,000 salary increase when he was the leader of the Opposition only for there to be a double-page spread in a newspaper a week later about how his office was spending £3,000 on furniture and computers. He effectively got no credit for turning down that salary increase and was then slagged off for buying equipment for his office. That kind of hair-shirt approach does not necessarily go down particularly well or get appreciated.

Regarding salaries, are you aware yet whether ministers have refused a pay rise for the 18th—or the 17th or whatever—year in a row, or have they, this year, finally decided to accept a pay rise? What, if anything, does that mean for the corporate body?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Obviously, with a relatively fixed budget, if you are spending on A, you cannot spend on B. There is a concern in local government and other areas that they are not getting as much as they would otherwise receive, because money is being spent on areas that are reserved to Westminster, for good or for ill. There is a feeling that perhaps the Parliament should focus on its devolved responsibilities. If people are unhappy with Westminster policies, they have an opportunity to vote one way or the other at an election.

On the issue of welfare, which you just touched on, the Scottish Fiscal Commission has, understandably, expressed concern that social security spending continues to rise steadily. Next year, it will be £1,334 million higher than if welfare payments remained at UK levels. When one removes social security spending, the overall funding in real terms is going down by 0.3 per cent—in a moment, I will touch on one or two areas where that is happening. In the following year, social security spending is expected to rise to £1,608 million. Given that the Scottish ministers will not change tax rates, and although fiscal drag will impact all but the two lowest bands, how can that be funded without cuts to existing services?