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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 December 2025
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Displaying 4060 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

It is about outcomes and whether there is an increase in dependency culture. Social security assistance is increasing from £6.8 billion to £8.8 billion, so that is £2 billion that is not being spent on other programmes. My understanding is that local authorities are having to reduce non-statutory expenditure, which includes a lot of the things that would work to help reduce poverty. For example, in education, school assistants, community workers, youth workers and campus cops are all having to fall by the wayside. I believe that all members got an email saying that 61 per cent of 240 organisations said that they would have to either close or reduce their workforce. One very prominent third sector organisation in my area that helps people through debt advice, support for rent and advice on alcohol and gambling is having to reduce its workforce by 40 per cent.

Although money is going into poverty reduction, that can look two-dimensional compared with the big picture. If the money went to other organisations, that might help people get into employment, for example, or it might help them educationally or with debt and other difficulties. Is there not an issue with focusing on benefits? Of course, we are well aware that people need benefits, but the additional funding that has gone into that is in effect not available for other areas.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

If areas are being prioritised, there must be areas that are not being prioritised. Are there specific areas in any particular portfolio that are no longer being prioritised? Will you give an example?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for that helpful opening statement. One of the things that you said was that spending choices are being made where they have the greatest impact. On page 59 of the medium-term financial strategy, you say:

“Considerable work has been undertaken since the 2023 MTFS to ensure public finances are focused on delivering the Scottish Government’s priorities, underpinned by public sector reform. Actions across the 2024-25 and 2025-26 Programmes for Governments and associated Scottish Budgets have streamlined commitments and prioritised spending, while ensuring a balanced budget each year.”

Given the emphasis on choice and prioritisation, what areas have been deprioritised?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. Let us switch to the capital spending outlook. It is of great concern to me and, I am sure, to others that, since the pandemic, we have had 27 per cent inflation in construction materials, which is quite shocking, coupled with a 4.3 per cent real-terms reduction in the UK capital block grant over the period 2022-23 to 2024-25. Clearly, that dramatically reduces the Scottish Government’s ability to invest in infrastructure, whether it is new infrastructure, maintenance or on-going projects, and it is leading to a backlog in maintenance across the public sector. I understand that there will be a 1.8 per cent real-terms reduction to 2030 as we move on.

We have been waiting with bated breath for a while now, but we are going to get the capital pipeline in December. What are the implications for the Scottish budget and capital investment as we go forward?

11:30  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Incidentally, the full-time-equivalent public sector workforce in Scotland is 469,100, according to the medium-term financial strategy.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I could have asked more questions, but we have all got lives outside this committee, and I think that we need to start living them. Thank you very much for your evidence today—it is very much appreciated.

That concludes the public part of our meeting. The next item on our agenda, which we will discuss in private, is consideration of our work programme, and there will be a one-minute break to allow our witnesses, the official report and broadcasting to leave.

13:07 Meeting continued in private until 13:09.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much.

I think that that concludes the committee’s questions. It has been a long shift, cabinet secretary, but do you have any further points that you want to make?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for your contributions this morning. Are there any further points that you want to make to the committee before we wind up?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for that. I open up the session to questions.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Government and Scottish Fiscal Commission (Publications)

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Yes. You can end up in a vicious circle rather than a virtuous circle.

I open up the session to colleagues around the table.