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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 June 2025
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Displaying 3475 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister and Mr Macleod for their evidence. We will publish a short report that sets out our decision on the draft instrument.

11:27 Meeting continued in private until 11:55.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Right to Addiction Recovery (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, but that £160 million is for dealing with the 7,000-odd people who come forward for treatment, not all of whom take it up—we know that about a third do not go forward with it—and those who take up alcohol services. If we increase the budget from, say, £160 million to £198 million, as is suggested in the financial memorandum, but the number of people who seek treatment for drugs alone doubles from more than 7,000 to 15,000, that £198 million will get blown pretty quickly, assuming that all the staff and facilities are already in place.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Right to Addiction Recovery (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate what you say, but the point that I am trying to make is that, even if we take on board what you have said about the data, extraneous costs—capital and the stuff that I have already mentioned, such as complementary and on-going support—still do not seem to be included.

I will ask just one more question, because I know that colleagues are keen to come in. In paragraph 30 of its submission, COSLA says:

“It should also be noted that Employer’s National Insurance Contributions are also a significant pressing risk for Local Government, commissioned services and other public and third sector bodies. Councils would not be able to meet additional costs, if the rise is not fully funded, and would be forced to make difficult decisions, as would IJBs and ADPs.â€

We are talking about a significant cost here. Where do you feel that the money could be found in the Scottish Government’s budget? We have just passed a budget, and there will be on-going and increasing demands and challenges throughout the year. It looks as though employer national insurance contribution increases are here to stay, so there will be an on-going cost for local authorities, the public sector and, indeed, the third sector, which is under the cosh, as you know. Where in the Scottish budget do you think that the money for the bill should come from?

10:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

To be fair, it has always been bolder than us.

11:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

If the figure were to be 600,000 tonnes and you put the tax rate up by a fiver, there would be an additional £3 million in revenue for the Scottish Government. Folk will not drive across the border from Motherwell or Aberdeen to save a fiver per tonne—they just will not. It seems sensible to be somewhat bolder on this, and I hope that the Government will look at the rate next year.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The committee will publish a short report setting out our decision on the instrument following the meeting. I briefly suspend the meeting to allow officials to change position.

11:05 Meeting suspended.  

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The next item on our agenda is evidence from the Minister for Public Finance on the draft Public Services Reform (Scotland) Act 2010 (Part 2 Further Extension) Order 2025. The minister is joined by Angus Macleod, head of the public bodies support unit for the Scottish Government. I invite the minister to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

It is interesting that, in point 3 of the letter from the finance and resilience directorate of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, there is a thing called “Ministerial salary sacrificeâ€. You look reasonably comfortable, despite your hair shirt today, minister. You will be glad to know that the committee had a whip-round for you before you arrived this morning, given the 15-year voluntary—I would put “voluntary†in inverted commas—freeze on ministerial salaries. The letter also says that there is no intention of changing that freeze. In my view, it is hard to see how the public will continue to value the work of ministers if they do not seem to value it themselves.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Kenneth Gibson

We talked about zero-based budgeting in the committee after our visit to Estonia, where the Government is doing that at a departmental level. Of course, it is done quite a lot in many areas of the private sector. Might you take that approach to some of those public bodies? It seems that some of them are there because they have always been there, but you could look at them and ask what their core activity is and whether it has to be that organisation that delivers that activity. Could you look at public bodies in that way?