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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I have a final question before I open up the meeting to questions from committee members.

You note in your briefing that this committee’s predecessor committee

“recommended that the incoming Committee considers inviting the Scottish Fiscal Commission ... to publish a long-term fiscal sustainability report at least once during each session of the Parliament.”

When, during this session, would that be most appropriate?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I think that we will all take the fifth on that one.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the sixth meeting in 2021 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee.

Agenda item 1 is an evidence-taking session with the Auditor General for Scotland on tracking the impact of Covid-19 on Scotland’s public finances. Audit Scotland recently published a report on this important topic; members have received copies of it, along with a note from the clerks and a private briefing paper from the Scottish Parliament information centre’s financial scrutiny unit.

I welcome to the meeting Sharon Dowey MSP, who is deputy convener of the Public Audit Committee. She is joining us for this session because her committee might wish to undertake work on the report in the future.

I also welcome to the meeting our witnesses: Stephen Boyle is the Auditor General for Scotland, and Mark Taylor is audit director at Audit Scotland. I intend to allow around 90 minutes for the session. Before I open things up to questions from committee members, I invite the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

My question is really about how the process can be improved.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I do not know. Ross Greer will still be with us, even in 20 or 30 years’ time. Maybe one or two other members will be, too.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I have a couple of questions to finish the evidence session. In the report, you noted that the Scottish Government said:

“the tracking of spend is more straightforward across health and social care and the larger support schemes; outside of these, judgements have been made about how Covid-19 disruption to spending on services has been recorded.”

How has that varied? Has the approach been consistent or inconsistent across the directorates during the Covid-19 pandemic?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

[Inaudible.]—my last question. First, Stephen Boyle, you said that there has been variation through necessity as much as anything else, but, with regard to what you have just said, Mark Taylor, have reporting mechanisms and transparency improved, stayed the same or deteriorated over the pandemic? Earlier, you said that another layer of reporting would be helpful, but you also said that the situation has improved over the past 18 months. Is it fair to say that? If so, could it have improved more?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. That was very helpful. Indeed, I am sure that I speak on behalf of the committee in saying that all your evidence has been helpful. Without further ado, I will terminate the public session of the committee, to allow our witnesses and the official report staff to leave. We will reconvene at noon.

11:55 Meeting suspended until 12:00 and continued in private thereafter until 12:18.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I am trying to get a handle on that, because it is fundamental to the issue that we are discussing, which is about knowing where public money is going and how it is being spent—or invested, depending on how you wish to describe it.

You have said that

“In determining its budget proposals, the Scottish Government will need to have a clear understanding of how it plans to transition from its initial financial response to more of a recovery phase.”

You go on to discuss continuing uncertainties during the pandemic and the need for the Scottish Government to maintain

“a flexible approach to its financial planning”.

How can Scottish ministers grapple with that? At one point you are looking for more certainty in understanding the transition, but at another you are trying to enable flexibility. How can we square that circle?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Covid-19 (Impact on Public Finances)

Meeting date: 28 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

You say:

“The UK position is a source of uncertainty for the Scottish budget”

and you go on to say that

“The Scottish Government has been informed of a further £175 million to be allocated. However, these consequentials will not be confirmed until the UK Government’s supplementary estimates are published early in 2022.”

What kind of difficulties does that cause for the Scottish Government?