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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 December 2025
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Displaying 4060 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

It was below inflation, though.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The Scottish Government inherited a total mess with colleges. In my area, the college in Kilwinning—which is in Cunninghame South—was linked with the James Watt College in Greenock, which was an absolute nonsense. The reorganisation has been effective and has made things much more focused. All the daft five-hour courses—that was five hours in total, not five hours in a week—have been bumped, and there is much more focus on business and connections with business.

A lot of that work has now been done, and yet colleges are still being expected to squeeze. Although there are no doubt innovations in your area, cabinet secretary, as there are in my area, colleges cannot continue to innovate while core budgets are being reduced or not allowed to grow. That is frankly unrealistic, so I hope that greater consideration will be given to the sector.

On local government, you told the committee four weeks ago that

“we have agreed on 95 per cent of everything”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 2 September 2025; c 40.]

in relation to the arrangements being discussed with local government for a new fiscal framework, although views differed regarding a rules-based budget. Has there been any progress over the past month on where we will be by budget time or, if not then, by the end of March?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You touched earlier on improving efficiency in portfolios. You said that you are looking to reduce administration costs by some 20 per cent across the public sector in a managed way. Over what period will that be delivered and, specifically, how will it be delivered?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate that you need to keep experience.

Thirty years ago, a member on Glasgow City Council suggested that it reduce the number of directors from 21 to 12. The administration scoffed and said that it could not run a city with only 12 directors but, a year later, it reduced them to seven. So, it depends what people actually do.

I have another couple of wee things to touch on. First, there still seems to be an issue between the Scottish Government and the UK Government about the impact of proceeds of crime, in relation to which the block grant has been held back by £4.3 million. Will that issue be resolved soon or will it keep dragging on—because, obviously, that is £4.3 million lost to our budget?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I am tempted to say something, but I will not go on any further. Ross Greer is next.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Scandalous.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Interestingly, the Finance Committee that ran from 2011 to 2016 took evidence from organisations such as Equity, the BBC, Channel 4 and Creative Scotland. However, such organisations do not really respond to calls for evidence from this committee. I think that they just give evidence to the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, which then makes recommendations through its own report. However, there is no reason why we cannot speak to them. We are not all philistines.

Incidentally, in Vilnius, Lithuania, there are, within a few hundred yards of each other, an opera house, a concert hall and a third hall, which is being built as we speak. They clearly see that the arts are an opportunity to boost revenue.

In terms of sharing services, a lot of councils already share payroll, council tax collection and roads management. There is an issue with regard to trading standards. There are 250 fewer trading standards officers than there were a few years ago. One of the issues that local government will continually raise with you is that non-statutory services have been hit really hard in recent years and that the room to manoeuvre is limited.

To finish off, I have a question on taxation, which we have not touched on. Professor David Heald, who has often given evidence to the committee in the past, although not recently, has always railed against the chronic state of the UK tax system, which is anything but progressive. He has often shown us a graph. One thinks of income and taxation as a steady line, but in actual fact it is a bit like the skyline in New York, going up and down. We have to work within that framework. However, we still have anomalies in Scotland whereby—I have mentioned this in previous years—the marginal rate of taxation for someone earning £44,000 a year is higher than for someone earning £51,000 because of the interplay between income tax and national insurance.

The medium-term financial strategy mentions two key measures to ensure a strategic approach to tax: The first is

“to improve the operation and performance of the existing tax system”,

and the second is

“Future tax reform to deliver sustainable and growing tax revenues”.

What improvements to the operation and performance of the existing tax system do you have in mind? What future tax reform will deliver those sustainable and growing tax revenues?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

There are 55 million people south of the border, and there has been a net influx to Scotland from the rest of the UK. It is important that those people are of working age. However, some areas, such as aerospace, say that the highest rate of tax in Scotland is a deterrent when it comes to attracting the engineers they would like to attract. Incidentally, in Lithuania, where we were last week, the top rate of tax is 32 per cent, as compared with 48 per cent in Scotland. Not every country in Europe has very high rates of personal taxation.

I think that we have given this morning’s discussion a really good go. Your responses have been very helpful to the committee, and I thank you and your officials for coming along.

Are there any final points that you would like to make to the committee before we wind things up?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You seem to be prepared to answer it, from what I can see.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I must say that you referenced old technology in your submission, but not new technology.