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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. Professor Mitchell, you talked about how difficult it is to change and to move people away from existing budgets. Obviously, it is easier to have preventative spend assisting change when budgets are growing rather than under stress and strain. What can be done even in such adverse circumstances?

There is clearly an issue whereby one can cynically say, “We will bring in these wonderful new changes, but we will have to take all the flak from those with vested interests now, and someone else will see the benefits in 10, 15 or 20 years.” That can be a selfish approach, because politics is often about the here and now. How would you address that issue in practical, pragmatic terms?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I thought that you would.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

As Professor Mitchell will know, I have long been keen on decluttering the landscape and major public sector structural reform.

We will move on to Liz Smith, to be followed by Ross Greer.

12:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. This will be my final question, because others want to come in.

In the main, the Christie commission’s report did not offer specific recommendations to the Government on how to progress the proposed programme of reform. That issue has been touched on already. Was that a weakness? Do you think that the reform acts that have come through in recent years, such as the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012, the Public Bodies (Joint Working) (Scotland) Act 2014 and the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015, are steps in the right direction?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

The committee is aware of that; we have discussed the issue in recent weeks. Is it fair to say that the Government has concerns about the matter?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister for coming. We will, in due course, publish a short report to Parliament setting out our decision on the regulations.

Our next panel of witnesses will be ready to start at 10 past 11, so I suspend the meeting.

11:05 Meeting suspended.  

11:10&Բ;&Բ;ܳԲ—&Բ;&Բ;

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I notice that there is a Whitehall transfer of £24.5 million to increase Scotland’s share of the immigration health surcharge that is collected by the Home Office. Can you tell us more about that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I have one other question. You touched on the issue of further decisions on allocations being announced when the spring budget revision comes forward. Can you update us on any change to the balance that is available for deployment and allocation in future with regard to the reserved balance that we have now?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I have a question for Professor Roy, unless anyone else wants to come in, about an issue that we have covered only briefly. In your submission, you say that

“there needs to be more of a focus upon empowerment, particularly at a local level”,

and you ask about the reforms that are “hindering progress”. To what extent do people in communities want to be empowered? Do people want to have that level of responsibility? My experience from 30 years as an elected representative is that most people just want services to work efficiently and effectively. A minority want to be empowered and to have more say in their community, but a lot of people just want to get on with their lives. They want the rubbish to be collected—that is a pertinent point at the moment—and they want street lights to work, no potholes on the roads, good schools and a working NHS.

To what extent is empowerment a reality in ordinary people’s lives? How do we ensure that empowerment does not just mean passing down responsibilities, in a town of 10,000 people, to 20 to 30 people who might go to a monthly meeting?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Communities can include thousands of people, but we are talking as though they have a collective view. I think that you mean that a number of people are vocal in those communities. Is that what you mean? We can compare that with elected representatives, who have probably been elected by several thousand people in those communities.