˿

Skip to main content
Loading…

Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Filter your results Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 December 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 4060 contributions

|

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You touched on the invest to save fund, which I was going to ask about anyway. Witnesses were very supportive of the fund, but they said that £30 million is not enough to do more than scratch the surface, that you really need a bigger fund if you are going to make fundamental change, and that the more that you invest to save, the more radical and swift the change is likely to be. Are those fair comments?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Does that seem reasonable?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Joe Griffin told us in response to a question from Michelle Thompson that, out of a workforce of 7,000 people, there were 4,000 managers. It looks as if it is all chiefs and nae braves, if you know what I mean. If you are looking to improve efficiency, the civil service does seem relatively top heavy compared with other organisations.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I am just thinking of Ireland. In 1986, the country was effectively a basket case, so everybody sat down and decided, “Look, this is what we need to do: focus on infrastructure and education.” Look where it has gone in the past 30 or 40 years as a result; it has had phenomenal growth and success relative to where it was.

I am now going to open up the session. I call Liz Smith, to be followed by Ross Greer.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed. The commission also said that the United Kingdom would not be able to meet its own climate targets without Scotland, because of the impact of peatland restoration and so on.

As for the small business bonus scheme, I would note that the Federation of Small Businesses has said that, without it, one in six of their businesses would have gone bust at the time of the financial crisis in 2008. Certainly the scheme might have a use in times of crisis.

I call John Mason, to be followed by Craig Hoy.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I have just been whispering about that with the clerks. We thought we had kicked it into touch long ago.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Excuse me, how many questions are you thinking of having?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the 26th meeting of the Finance and Public Administration Committee in 2025. We have received apologies from Michael Marra.

Before we start, I put on record our thanks to the Lithuanian MPs, organisations and officials who met us during our short fact-finding visit to the beautiful and extremely clean city of Vilnius last week. I have never been anywhere so immaculate.

Lithuania’s challenges are similar to those of Scotland in relation to demographics and public sector reform. We had fruitful discussions with our counterparts on long-term strategic thinking and growing the economy. We will draw on those discussions as we continue our pre-budget scrutiny, and we will publish a summary note of the visit very soon.

We have one item on today’s agenda, which is to take evidence from the Scottish Government on responding to long-term fiscal pressures. I welcome to the meeting the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government, Shona Robison. The cabinet secretary is accompanied by Scottish Government officials Richard McCallum, director of public spending; Lucy O’Carroll, director of tax; and Alasdair Black, deputy director of budget and fiscal co-ordination.

I wish the cabinet secretary good morning and invite her to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Even 14 January would be better. A Thursday is a terrible day.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

During my lifetime, we have had inventions such as the internet, email and the telephone—actually, that was before my lifetime, but it was in Liz Smith’s lifetime. I therefore do not think that it is impossible. Certainly, any step forward in progress that you could make on that would be helpful for our scrutiny.

I commend the Government for the fact that all four plans will be together. That is really important. I was going to ask you specifically about that, but you have answered the point. It will be very helpful to have all those documents together. I realise that that is also a lot of work for the Government, but it is certainly what we have been looking for.

I will get into the meat of other things that we want to discuss today. We have taken evidence on pre-budget scrutiny for a number of weeks, and one issue is prioritisation. The Government has talked about that, and you have talked today about areas of need. Again, we have found that, although it is always easy to talk about what is being prioritised, the quid pro quo is that, if you prioritise one thing, you must be deprioritising another. What is going to be deprioritised as we go forward?