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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Environmental Fiscal Measures

Meeting date: 15 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Even if there were an overall increase in tax take, there is still a potential for the imposition of significant costs on the public through laws or regulations. For example, we were told that the installation of renewable heat in people’s homes could cost up to £33 billion over the next eight years. The cost per house is colossal. There is about £1.8 billion available for that. If we assume that we have heating engineers to deliver the programme within eight years—I am dubious about that—how do we deliver those admirable ideas in practical terms, both financially and ensuring that we have the people to deliver them on the ground?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I will now suspend the meeting briefly to allow for a changeover of officials.

12:19 Meeting suspended.  

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I thank colleagues around the table for their questions, and I thank the minister for his evidence.

Item 3 is formal consideration of the motion on the Scottish statutory instrument. I invite the minister to move motion S6M-03069.

Motion moved,

That the Finance and Public Administration Committee recommends that the Budget (Scotland) Act 2021 Amendment Regulations 2022 be approved.—[Tom Arthur]

Motion agreed to.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I knew it—okay, right.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I get what you are saying, Professor Heald, but there is another difficulty in addition to the political difficulties of putting money away at a time when there is huge pressure on budgets, as there is at the moment. In previous decades, we saw a tendency in UK Governments to have, for example, what were, as I remember, called election bribes. Governments would have a couple of years of really difficult and unpalatable policies and then, suddenly, at the end of their four or five years, they would have a big pot of money. They would say that that was because their policies were working and they would blow the money on a pre-election splurge.

The difficulty is that that would perhaps be a temptation for a Government that was building up such a reserve. If it was 4 or 5 per cent behind in the polls, for example, it might feel a need to oil the wheels a bit and say that all the difficult policies that it had enacted over the past three or four years were working so fantastically well that it had managed to generate additional funding. Therefore, there are real difficulties with the approach that you suggest not just from a presentational point of view; the money would be a temptation to Governments.

When I was on Glasgow City Council, I looked at rent increases. Every year for 40 years, the lowest rates of increase were in election years and the highest rates were in the year after an election. I do not think that Glasgow was alone in that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. We have to think about the areas from which we are going to take that money and that is the most difficult decision of all.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I am a great believer in evolution and flexibility myself.

That concludes questions from committee members; I have one question about taxation. What do you believe is the public appetite for new local taxes? The committee has discussed the point that people who earn £43,000 to £50,000 will face a marginal tax rate of 54.25 per cent from April, when we add national insurance to income tax. From the remaining sum, people have to pay VAT, excise duty, council tax, fuel duty et cetera, so there is a significant squeeze on incomes. Further down the scale, people are also feeling the pinch.

Is it not the case that the Treasury has a bit of a surge in income at the moment? We have fiscal drag, and inflation is bringing in additional revenue. I understand that Rishi Sunak has £18 billion more than he anticipated that he would have at this time of year. We could even remove the care levy that is being suggested—that would be fundable.

What I am trying to say is that, given the inflationary pressures and the extent to which people are feeling the pinch, particularly from energy, food and fuel prices, do you feel that this is the right time to consider additional taxation of any kind?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

It is interesting from the committee’s point of view that ministers always say in every budget that every penny is committed, but when we end up with such bumps in the road—the UK Government reneging on £290 million is a significant bump—the money is still somehow able to be found to smooth them over.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Of course, inflation constricts things even more, because the lack of indexing means that what you can do with the reserve reduces every year.

I call Douglas Lumsden, to be followed by Daniel Johnson.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 8 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Basically, that is April 2023.