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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 December 2025
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Displaying 4060 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Perhaps there is also an issue about not always feeling the need to hit the ground running.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

You were very straightforward about behaviours and you talked about keeping an open mind, genuine listening and a rational approach.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

That was an excellent answer in a very short time; you covered it in a nutshell. The them-and-us approach that we had several decades ago has dissipated, at least in companies that want to be successful. All levels of a company have to push in the same direction, and it helps when people are involved in that direction.

I worked at a pharmaceutical company that had a staff suggestion scheme through which it asked us all to come up with ideas about how to improve how the company delivered, but nobody submitted any ideas. I suggested to my manager, who passed it up the line, that if the company gave people an incentive, it might find that things would be different. It was then decided that members of staff could get up to 10 per cent of any savings that were made through implementation of a policy that they had suggested, and the company was overwhelmed with suggestions about improvements that it could make.

You probably heard me talk about participation versus consultation in the public sector in our session with the first panel. Staff being able to participate in their company and to suggest ideas that would be directly beneficial to them, as well as to the long-term delivery of the company鈥檚 objectives, is obviously helpful.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Do our witnesses have any further points that they would like to make before we wind up the session? Is there anything that you think that we should have touched on but did not?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for your contributions鈥攖hey have been extremely helpful. I also thank you for travelling to Scotland, which makes a huge difference to the quality of the evidence that we take. I say that as someone who is quite averse to virtual meetings in the first place; on top of that, the committee has recently faced some difficult situations, involving all sorts of snarl-ups, in virtual meetings. Your attendance in person is much appreciated.

We will have a five-minute break while we change witnesses.

10:53 Meeting suspended.  

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Exactly. Take as much time as you need.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, that has come through strongly in evidence. I am now going to open up the session.

10:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

One of the things that you mentioned in your submission was churn. You said:

鈥淐hurn among civil servants is an issue across the civil service in both Whitehall and across the devolved administrations, which is encouraged for the development of generalist civil servants ... Researchers have also commented adversely about churn among politicians鈥.

I had a wee look. Apparently, in the year to September 2022, the UK Government had five education secretaries and, from 2000 to 2022, it had 22 housing ministers. Here at Holyrood, we have had four transport ministers in two years. How much does the churn in ministers, as well as in civil servants, militate against good decision making?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Dr Foster, does the workload of ministers mean that they cannot keep their eye constantly on the ball? Does that have an impact on the quality of decisions, and does it mean that some of the decisions are, in effect, outsourced because they have to rely on other people to have a full grasp of the detail?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Indecisiveness is obviously a concern in some instances.

I will wind up the session by giving our witnesses the opportunity to make any final points if they feel that we have not touched on an issue or if they wish to emphasise something.