˿

Skip to main content
Loading…

Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Filter your results Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 September 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 3573 contributions

|

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

In the consultation, you all responded to the question of whether there was adequate time for consultation with a one-word answer, which was “No”. You might have missed some of the previous evidence session today because you were travelling here, but I put that point to the bill team, who obviously tried to defend the length of the consultation period.

How much time do you feel that there could have been for the consultation? How could it have been improved? What further consultation could there be? I will ask all three of you the same questions. What confidence do you have in the level of engagement on co-design, which the bill team mentioned on at least four separate occasions in the previous session? They talked about being proactive and engaging with stakeholders and so on, but that does not appear to be your collective view. Perhaps you can talk us through that. Sarah Watters may want to go first on this occasion.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

So you are saying that because so many people were consulted your own contributions have been hugely diluted as regards what the bill team took on board as the financial memorandum was being put together.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Funnily enough, that was going to be my next question, so I may as well ask it now. What should and should not be in the FM? Is there anything in it that should not be there and what additional content should there be?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

If that is the case and the true cost base is accepted, where will the resources come from to fund it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I know that you have not. I am just saying that the way in which that part of the financial memorandum is written suggests that it is a case of, “If it happens that way, it happens that way.” I am fully aware that you will have spent countless hours on this, but it jumped out at me that there seemed to be a feeling, “Well, we’ll just have to work it out some other way.” Therefore, I am a wee bit alarmed about what the probability is that the issue will be resolved, given the financial impact that it will have.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I will ask just a couple more questions, because I want colleagues to be able to come in. One is about charging. The Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy has said that there is

“Concern that the recommendation to increase Free Personal and Nursing Care for self-funders will not necessarily deliver a reduction to the amount paid by self-funders.”

What is the thinking behind that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

My question is whether the viability of local authorities will be taken into account or whether all this will be taken forward as a result of some purely isolated look at the delivery of the service.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

It has been a fairly long session, and I thank Donna Bell and Fiona Bennett for their evidence.

We will now have a five-minute break, after which we will take further evidence.

10:49 Meeting suspended.  

10:59&Բ;&Բ;ܳԲ—&Բ;&Բ;

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

We continue our evidence taking on the financial memorandum to the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. I welcome Sarah Watters, director of membership and resources at the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities; Sharon Wearing, chair of the integrated joint boards chief finance officer section, Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy; and Paul Manning, executive director of finance and corporate resources and deputy chief executive, South Lanarkshire Council, representing SOLACE Scotland.

We move straight to questions. What do you believe has motivated the Scottish Government to take such momentous steps in bringing forward the bill?

It seems that you all want to take the fifth amendment, so I will help you out. The Government has said that the bill seeks to ensure consistency and quality of services. In what way do the services lack the quality and consistency that we all want to see?

Go on, Paul Manning—I know that you are desperate to speak first.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Sarah Watters, is that COSLA’s view? There is an element of frustration, I understand, among Scottish ministers and other ˿, with the fact that there is still inconsistency and that there is not the same level of quality everywhere. For example, as you will have noted, the bill team talked about specific issues across boundaries. I do not know how big an issue that is.