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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 December 2025
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Displaying 4060 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I want to thank you both. The committee appreciates your professionalism, your expertise and the time that you have surrendered to give evidence to us today. It is much appreciated and your evidence will certainly be included in our report. Thank you both very much, gentlemen.

I suspend the meeting for five minutes to allow a changeover of witnesses and to give members a break.

10:41 Meeting suspended.  

10:47&苍产蝉辫;翱苍&苍产蝉辫;谤别蝉耻尘颈苍驳鈥&苍产蝉辫;&苍产蝉辫;

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for that. You used the term 鈥渓ast resort鈥. What would you consider to be a last resort?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Although you said that people are kept within budget, you talked earlier on about how the two-year timeframe can be extended. Is that the same for budgets鈥攂ut that it is unlikely and does not happen often?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Maybe aye, maybe no.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I note that Olof Palme鈥檚 Government in 1982 was keen to restrict timeframes to two years and yet, ironically, the investigation into his own murder appears, at 57 months, to have been the longest inquiry in Sweden. That is interesting in itself.

Dr Prasser, you have had a number of inquiries in Australia. We have received a document from you that shows quite a seesaw in the number of inquiries over the eight Governments that you looked at. Over the period from the Menzies Government to the Albanese Government, there were 27 under Labor and 27 under the Liberals and National Party. Is there any real difference in the approach by the different Governments in Australia?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Building Safety Levy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I completely agree with you, but there is an issue with the scrutiny. Someone鈥攖he clerk of works, or whoever鈥攈as to check that the work has been implemented to the correct standard.

Two years down the line from a development in my constituency鈥擨 will not say which one鈥攂eing fully occupied, we suddenly found out that the sewerage system had not been installed to the required standard, which is causing issues, as you can imagine. It is not just about having the regulations but about ensuring that they are fully implemented.

Mr Drummond, you said:

鈥淔irstly, Scotland needs to preserve and build upon its existing public sector building control system. Secondly, procurement must be very substantially improved to ensure higher quality in construction.鈥

How do we do that? Do we have the people with the skills to do that? Is that quality out there? What lead time did you have in mind for implementing that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Building Safety Levy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

In that case, I thank you for your evidence this morning, which is very helpful to the committee in its deliberations.

10:29 Meeting suspended.  

10:54&苍产蝉辫;翱苍&苍产蝉辫;谤别蝉耻尘颈苍驳鈥&苍产蝉辫;&苍产蝉辫;

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The final item on our agenda is to take evidence on the cost-effectiveness of Scottish public inquiries. I welcome to the meeting Patrick McGuire of Thompsons Solicitors Scotland. Good morning, Mr McGuire, and thank you for your written submission. I want to express how glad I am that you accepted the invitation to give evidence鈥攊t is greatly appreciated by the committee.

We will move straight to questions. I will start by quoting a question that was raised by Professor Cameron, who was one of the first people to give evidence on this matter. You may have seen what he said:

鈥淚t has to be recognised that inquiries are a source of substantial income for some large legal firms and as such the question arises as to the extent to which they are motivated to keep costs to a minimum and within budget.鈥

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You must have known that it was coming up鈥攃ome on.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I understand鈥攚e just have a lot to get round. My question was very long, and I apologise for that, too.

Some witnesses have told us that a number of things can be done to make inquiries more efficient and effective, such as having a proper secretariat that has built up some institutional memory of how inquiries are successfully conducted, instead of having to reinvent the wheel, as we seem to do with every inquiry.

Tens of thousands of documents often have to be duplicated, but why does a trained lawyer have to do that? Can it be done by a paralegal or someone else? Would that reduce the cost? Apparently, it has a significant impact on the overall cost of any inquiry to have qualified lawyers copying 100,000 documents. All that I am saying is that, even with the system that we have and even if you accept that the system as it is should continue, there must be ways of reducing the costs to the public purse. After all, the cost of an inquiry might ultimately mean fewer officers on the street. It does have an impact.