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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 September 2025
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Displaying 3573 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the witnesses from the OBR for their comprehensive answers, which are much appreciated. That concludes our public session.

11:15 Meeting continued in private until 11:36.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. Thank you for that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Before he comes in, I ask you to be a wee bit more specific. I anticipated that you would talk about people on lower incomes, but who do you mean by that? Do you mean people who are on benefits, people who are on low wages who are getting pay rises that are below the rate of inflation, pensioners, or some elements of the above?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the 33rd meeting in 2022 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee.

The first item on our agenda is an evidence session with the Office for Budget Responsibility on the United Kingdom autumn budget statement and the wider UK context, with a view to informing our scrutiny of the upcoming Scottish budget 2023-24.

We are joined remotely by Richard Hughes, chair of the budget responsibility committee, and Andy King and Professor David Miles CBE, both of whom are members of the budget responsibility committee. Good morning, and welcome to the meeting.

I move straight to questions. I ask members to direct their questions to the chair, Mr Hughes, who can bring in other members of the panel as he wishes, but the other panellists should indicate if they wish to speak. We are two members down this morning, because of the weather conditions, we believe. At least one of them should be here within the next 30 minutes.

Mr Hughes, in our pre-budget scrutiny, we called for

“an open and honest debate with the public about how services and priorities are funded, including the role of taxation in funding wider policy benefits to society.”

Do you believe that that is happening, either north or south of the border?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

That is why we need an Office for Tax Simplification.

Andy, my final point will probably come under your area. I do not know whether you will have had time to look at it because it was published on 5 December, but in a paper commissioned by the Scottish Trades Union Congress, Landman Economics set out

“a proposed package of tax increases to fund an increase in public sector pay and investment in public services, in Scotland”,

including short and long-term measures, which would raise ÂŁ3.3 billion. Have you had the opportunity to look at that and consider what its implications might be for service delivery and behavioural change, and so on?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

When do you want to come in?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

To be fair, everyone will be hit by fiscal drag between now and 2028. Andy King, did you want to come in?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

What would that mean in cash terms?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Paul Johnson of the Institute for Fiscal Studies said that borrowing will take the strain in the near term, with

“the great majority of the planned consolidation … due only after the next election”.

He added,

“what we are really doing is reaping the costs of a long-term failure to grow the economy, the effects of population ageing, and high levels of past borrowing”,

and concluded by saying that

“we are in for a long, hard, unpleasant journey … that has been made more arduous than might have been by a series of economic own goals”.

Do you agree with that?

09:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Kenneth Gibson

That is one of the Government’s arguments for trying to ride out some of the current pay demands and not build them into the system.