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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 December 2025
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Displaying 4060 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Have your local authorities received funding? It is interesting that 17 out of the 32 local authorities have received a total of £53 million. Obviously, local authorities are different sizes and so on. Has your local authority received funding, or is that something that you are in discussion with Scottish ministers about? I see Kirsty McGuire shaking her head.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

The Scottish Government seems determined to make this work. It says that the Scottish ministers will be enabled to impose statutory recycling targets on local authorities, with financial penalties if targets are not met. In Wales, a local authority can be levied with a fine of £200 per tonne of waste by which it falls short of the target amount. It is clear that there will be pressures on local authorities.

The financial memorandum talks in detail about savings from paper cups going to landfill and this, that and the other. You have all said that any additional costs should be met fully by the Scottish Government, but what is the net outcome from the bill for each of your local authorities?

Mr Devine, you were quite hesitant about talking about pounds, shillings and pence at the beginning of this question session, but where are we in terms of the parameters for a city such as Dundee to deliver what is in the financial memorandum? Would that cost the city an extra £500,000, £1 million or £2 million? Obviously, we have to look at that. The whole point of financial memorandums is to give best estimates so that we can look at the impact on the public purse. Where is Dundee on that? I will ask your colleagues the same question.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. Thank you very much.

That concludes the public part of the committee’s work today. We will move into private session to consider our work programme. We will have a wee break until 5 to 11 to enable our witnesses and the official report to leave.

10:52 Meeting continued in private until 11:12.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Devine touched on that point about chasing people, too.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I am looking for ballpark stuff. Ms McGuire, do you have anything to add?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Jack, you are my last hope.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I will open up the evidence session to colleagues around the table. The first to ask questions will be the deputy convener, Michael Marra, who will be followed by John Mason.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I will make one point, which is that Dundee’s boundaries were set pre-devolution.

10:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. That concludes questions from the committee. “Circular economy” is one of those phrases that just appeared and I do not think that the public really know a lot about it. It is like when Tony Blair came in in 1997 and “social exclusion” suddenly became the phrase that everybody used. I think that some education is needed in relation to the circular economy.

I am just going to say one thing. The financial memorandum itself points out that it does not have all the answers. For example, it says in paragraph 33:

“It is not possible at this stage to provide definitive estimates about the extent of any additional costs or benefits to local authorities that would be associated with the introduction of enforcement tools for local authorities in relation to householders’ recycling obligations”.

The financial memorandum admits that it does not have the full answer there.

I thank all three of you for giving evidence. It is greatly appreciated. We will take evidence on the bill from the Scottish Government at our meeting on 7 November. With that in mind, do any of you have any final points to make? Is there anything that we have not touched on that you feel that we should have? Are there any specific points that you want to ensure that we do not omit when the minister comes before us in a couple of weeks’ time?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Ms McGuire, one of the issues that you have raised is how much the financial memorandum seems to believe that local authorities will have to pay in order to hire additional staff to monitor this. You talked about the assumptions around the full-time equivalent enforcement officer as being nowhere near the actual real cost. Can you touch on that? It is obvious that your colleagues are also concerned about that.