˿

Skip to main content
Loading…

Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Filter your results Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 September 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 3573 contributions

|

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Under our next agenda item, the committee will continue our inquiry into the Scottish Government’s public service reform programme. Today, we will hear from Sarah Watters, who is director of membership and resources at the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and Cleland Sneddon, the chief executive of South Lanarkshire Council, who is representing the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers Scotland. I welcome both of you to the meeting.

I intend to allow up to 75 minutes for this session. If the witnesses would like to be brought into the discussion at any point, they should indicate that to the clerks, please, and I will call them. We will move straight to questions.

I was impressed by the quality and detail of your joint submission, which is an excellent piece of work. There was one very clear and overriding statement from local government. Paragraph 9 in the summary of key points states:

“Local Government requires fair and sustainable funding and greater empowerment.”

Such themes run right through the document. However, something that I have found frustrating with COSLA on a number of occasions is the fact that, although there is talk of fair and sustainable funding—I think that everyone on the committee is very sympathetic to that; for example, three members of the committee who are here today are former councillors, and Douglas Lumsden was, of course, a council leader—there is no detail on what that really means. It would be good if that could be expanded on a wee bit. We will touch on that and then go on to other points.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

The medium-term financial strategy states:

“it is for individual public bodies ... to determine the target operating model for their workforces and to ensure workforce plans and projections are affordable in 2023-24 and over the medium term”

Do you consider that to be realistic at this time?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, I think that that is a positive development. I certainly hope that it will prove to be so.

One of the things that the Scottish Government has been doing is increasing benefits relative to south of the border, such that, by about 2028, the figure will be about £1.4 billion. I have spoken to people in local government who have told me that some of that money would be better spent on the local government services that help to underpin work to reduce poverty.

Has local government in Scotland undertaken any cost benefit analysis to look at the benefit of a pound being spent in local government, for example, compared with its being spent on one of the measures in relation to benefits or, indeed, any other measure in the Scottish Government’s spend, so that we can be clear about the value for money aspect of the work that local government does?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I will now open up the questions to colleagues.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed. I call Douglas Lumsden, to be followed by Liz Smith.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

It would be more effective and efficient if it was done collaboratively.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I thank you both for this excellent evidence, which was very interesting. It was a really good discussion. Do you want to make any further points before we wind up the session? Is there anything that you feel that we have not covered?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

We just ran out of time, to be honest.

11:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

As Sarah Watters has no further comments to make, I thank you both once again for your evidence.

We will continue to take evidence on the Scottish Government’s public service reform programme at our next meeting.

That concludes the public part of today’s meeting. The next item on our agenda, which will be discussed in private, is consideration of our work programme. We will have a five-minute comfort break to allow official report staff and our guests to leave.

11:02 Meeting continued in private until 11:28.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for that. I should have said “Deputy Prime Minister” instead of “Prime Minister”.

Dr Foster, do you want to add anything on that question?