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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 September 2025
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Displaying 3573 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

No—it was a comprehensive answer. You touched on a couple of things that are mentioned in your written submission. For example, you talked about the need to have a single authority, which is a significant point. You also talked about the difference between the ability of your council and that of others to outsource, which is also significant. I imagine that depopulation has played a part in the reduction in funding. No one ever seems to want to say how much “fair and sustainable funding” is in pounds, shillings and pence.

Do you accept that, as Ross Greer said last week, the Scottish Government does not have multiyear funding, so it is kind of difficult for it to provide multiyear funding for those who depend on it? Is that not a fair comment?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

One thing that you are implementing, as everyone is to a degree, is digitalisation. Over what time do you hope to deliver digitalisation, and are you working with other local authorities on that? When I read the reports about local authorities and their work on digitalisation, it seems that everyone is beavering away. I am not sure what level of cross-local authority working there is. For example, we could have similar systems being implemented and possible economies of scale. Where are you on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

You state in your written submission:

“Monthly online transactions have increased from 1,500 pre-pandemic to over 25,000 monthly, reducing paper handling, improving processing times and transforming service delivery.”

How does that work for people who are not digitally included?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you.

Mr Emmott, I am looking at Dundee City Council’s submission to the committee. One of the questions that we asked was about how the organisation’s plans seek to deliver on the Scottish Government’s three strategic priorities, which were set out. I notice that, in Dundee City Council’s response, you say that you are

“reducing child poverty and inequalities in incomes, education”.

However, you have not expanded on that to say how you will deliver that; it is just a line. Will you expand on that a wee bit, please?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Another thing in your submission that caught my eye, Mr Tough, is the fact that you have transferred 58 assets to community ownership and operation. Obviously, rationalisation of the estate is an important part of the reform agenda. How successful have those transfers been? Have some of the assets had to be handed back, or are all the communities managing to work effectively, albeit one or two of them or perhaps more will need continued support from their local authority? How is that working? Do you believe that other local authorities could learn from East Ayrshire’s model?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Not at all. I will ask you about one more thing, and then I will move on to Mr Burr and open out the rest of the session. It is about the 12 questions that we asked. I was intrigued to note that the response to three of the questions was “Not applicable”. I will ask Mr Burr about the reasons for that in a moment. In Dundee’s submission, you did not respond to questions 10 and 11. Question 10 was one of the questions that Mr Burr also did not respond to. Question 10 was:

“What level of support and guidance has your organisation been given by the Scottish Government to deliver the efficiencies and plans necessary for your organisation, and how adequate has this been?”

Mr Tough responded to that, but I wonder why Dundee did not. What is your view on that? Do you feel that you are not getting the guidance and support?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Burr wants to come back in.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. Time is against us, so I will not push that any further. Thank you for that. I will open the session to colleagues. The first person to ask a question is John Mason, to be followed by Douglas Lumsden.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

What is “fair and sustainable funding”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Tough, you also provided a lot of detail on your digitalisation strategy. You hope to invest in digitalisation but recoup that cost ultimately. Have you a time over which you think you will be able to recoup the cost of digitalisation, or will it always be something that you are never quite able to manage?

09:45