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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget (Scotland) (No 3) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Our second agenda item is to consider the Budget (Scotland) (No 3) Bill at stage 2. There are no amendments but, under standing orders, we are obliged to consider each section and schedule of the bill and the long title and to agree to each formally.

We will take the sections in order, with schedules being taken immediately after the section that introduces them and the long title last. Fortunately, standing orders allow us to put a single question where groups of sections or schedules are to be considered consecutively and, unless members disagree, that is what I propose to do.

Section 1 agreed to.

Schedule 1 agreed to.

Section 2 agreed to.

Schedule 2 agreed to.

Section 3 agreed to.

Schedule 3 agreed to.

Sections 4 to 11 agreed to.

Long title agreed to.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Welcome to the eighth meeting in 2024 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. We will consider the Budget (Scotland) (No 3) Bill at stage 2 today. However, before moving to our formal proceedings, we will take evidence on the Scottish Government’s response to the committee’s report “Budget Scrutiny 2024-25”.

We are joined by Shona Robison, the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance. The cabinet secretary is accompanied by Scottish Government officials Dr Alison Cumming, who is the director for budget and public spending; Ian Storrie, who is the head of local government finance; and Lorraine King, who is the deputy director of the tax and revenues directorate. I welcome our witnesses to the meeting.

Last Friday, members received copies of the Scottish Government’s response to our report. Before we move to questions from the committee, I invite the cabinet secretary to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

That leads me on to something that I was not going to ask about, because other colleagues will probably want to come in on it. You have talked about whether reliefs will be retained in England. A lot of people have asked about whether the council tax freeze will be baselined into the local government settlement. Will that be the case?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

That is why I said that there is politics involved—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I am keen to move on and to take us back to the report.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I thank colleagues. As I have said, I have been very generous with time today—and particularly with your time, Deputy First Minister—so we have been asking questions for an hour longer than was proposed.

Thank you, Deputy First Minister, for answering so many questions in such detail. Of course, I think that we were all probably guilty of wandering off the report at certain points.

We know that stage 3 of the budget is next Tuesday. Given some of the questions that have been asked and the comments that have been made, can you tell us whether any Opposition parties have come forward with alternative fully costed budget proposals?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I am well aware of that, but the Government has to do the right thing. We all know that Opposition politicians will stand up and say, “There are X number fewer teachers than there were a few years ago,” but the way to defend the position is clearly by having improved outcomes because schools have the right mix of teachers, support staff, psychologists and everything else. The attainment challenge is about not just teachers but the whole structure in a school.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Rather than having a board, it might be easier to let local authorities do what they think is best for their areas with the resources that they have, but I will move on.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Surely they do that already.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 20 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I will let colleagues in soon, so I am not going to ask many more questions or wade through the whole report.

In response to paragraph 112, you said:

“we have prioritised funding for the Scottish National Investment Bank.”

However, I do not see how that statement can possibly bear scrutiny when there is a reduction of 28 per cent in its funding. That cannot be classed as prioritisation by any measure. I would have thought that that organisation, which is required to lever in private funding, could get a bigger bang for its buck. I fully appreciate the need to spend money on public services, but if you are not generating additional wealth, you will not be able to do that for long. That means, in effect, that, next year, we will be in the same, or a worse, position. How has the Scottish Government prioritised the Scottish National Investment Bank if the funding is falling so dramatically?

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