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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I mean the impact of tax changes in Scotland relative to the rest of the UK on our revenue streams.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I just wanted to clarify those numbers.

My last question also concerns the clarification of numbers. The example in table 3 of the financial memorandum gives a summary of estimated Revenue Scotland running costs for the first year of the SAT. The numbers are all rounded. For example, amortisation—which is a great word that means

“the spreading of the cost of an intangible asset such as an IT system”—

is £200,000, operational staff costs are £645,000 and operational non-staff costs are £60,000. Once that is all done and dusted, the costs would be about £905,000 a year.

What are the parameters for that? How accurate are those figures? Are they within 5 per cent, 10 per cent or 20 per cent limits? How confident are you that the figures in the financial memorandum for the set-up costs and, importantly, the continuing operational costs are accurate?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

From my perspective, “comfortable” isnae very numeric. That is why I asked whether the confidence limit is 5 per cent, 10 per cent or 20 per cent. What kind of ball park are we talking about? Obviously, financial memorandums have to be best estimates, but how confident are you?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

That figure will have been set on the basis of today’s prices, obviously.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the 10th meeting in 2024 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. The only item on our agenda is to take evidence from two panels of witnesses on the Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill.

First, we will hear from Eric Brown, a member of the Chartered Institute of Taxation’s Scottish technical committee; Justine Riccomini, the head of tax for employment and devolved taxes at the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland; and Isobel d’Inverno, the convener of the Law Society of Scotland’s tax law sub-committee. I welcome you all to the meeting. Thank you for your written submissions.

We will move straight to questions. About 150 current United Kingdom taxpayers have been identified as being likely to be required to register for the Scottish aggregates tax. Is that a fair reflection of the actual number of taxpayers, or have a number of them not been picked up yet. Is anyone able to answer that question?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

To be fair, I should have asked Isobel d’Inverno to answer the question, because it is her submission that mentions the figure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. I will move on. The potential of cross-border issues as a result of differential taxation has been raised as a concern. When we went on a visit a couple of weeks ago, we were told that there are not many cross-border issues, because the tax is about £2 per tonne and it costs a lot more than that to pay the wages of a driver, to put petrol in the truck and to ship the material hundreds of miles, so the £2 does not have much of an impact.

The Chartered Institute of Taxation’s submission states:

“Scotland exports far more aggregate to rUK than it imports (over 5.5million tonnes compared to 16,000 tonnes)”.

That is obviously a colossal differential. I take it that those aggregates cannot be sourced from elsewhere in the UK. You say that the way in which the bill is structured and the relations between the UK and Scottish Governments mean that Scotland could lose between £8 million and £10 million a year in revenue. Could you expand on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Justine, one of the issues that concern you is the potential impact on other taxes, such as land and buildings transactions tax. Is that right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

You said in your submission that it is “disproportionate”. Further on, you touched on safeguards and said:

“there do not appear to be any safeguards for taxpayers to deal with situations where the taxpayer may not agree that they have failed to pay an amount of tax, because they do not believe the tax is payable.”

What safeguards should be introduced in the bill?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

That is a real issue. If the tax is levied after something has been sent to England, the UK Government gets the tax rather than the Scottish Government.