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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 June 2025
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Displaying 3510 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for that upbeat and interesting opening statement. I will refer to that as I ask my questions, before opening the session to colleagues.

You said that Revenue Scotland has worked closely with aggregates industry representatives. We have discussed how they have emphasised the need for a level playing field across the UK. However, other people have a different view on that. For example, the Scottish Environmental Services Association and the Resource Management Association Scotland argue in favour of an increased rate of tax in Scotland to incentivise the wider adoption of recycled aggregates, and have asked for the two Governments to work together, where possible, to bring about a UK-wide increase in the aggregates tax and levy. If that is not possible, they would like the Scottish Government to increase taxation on non-recycled primary aggregates in order to fulfil the Government’s objective of switching more production and usage to secondary recycled products. Have you had much contact with organisations such as those?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate that, and I realise that Revenue Scotland is there to implement Scottish Government policy. However, from your opening statement and your submission—I might have read that wrong—it appears that it is almost a case of saying, “Okay, we’ll just go ahead with that”, rather than querying whether that is the right thing to do and whether ministers are being advised that that is the way forward. Ministers listen to what Revenue Scotland has to say—it is not a one-way conversation.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

We will put those matters to the minister next week.

Table 1 in the financial memorandum estimates that, in the current financial year, ÂŁ60 million would be raised and that, over the next five years, that would increase to ÂŁ64 million. Assuming that the tax rate remains the same, that does not suggest that there will be much of a switch to secondary products at all. It looks almost to be a case of steady as she goes. Is that a reasonable assumption on the basis of the financial memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

We have 32 local authorities. They must know what quarries they have in their areas—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

What is the general sense of the scale of unregistered quarries—quarries that, even though the levy has been in place for 22 years, are not paying any tax?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Hold on a second. Given that we have a bill that sets out to devolve the tax and get the optimum level of revenue, is that not a fundamental thing to ascertain?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

They are in part 2 of the bill.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Where that power exists at the moment, it seems to be rarely used.

I have two further questions before I open the questioning to colleagues. My first one goes back to the point about there being 350 quarries. You said in your submission that you have identified 150 current UK taxpayers that are likely to be required to register for the SAT. I take it that that includes people with multiple quarries and that, therefore, it is not the case that there are 150 legitimate operators, plus 200 illegitimate ones, because you do not know how many of the latter there are. Is it right to say that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

John Mason will be excited about that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you, Gillian. Colleagues have exhausted their questions.

I make the observation that compliance surely increases revenue, even if that is not the reason for it.

As well as grappling with a lack of data, which means that we do not know how big the issue is, it appears that there has not been much enforcement over the past 20 or so years. You said that the aggregates levy is a small tax, but individuals sometimes get chased by HMRC for just a few pounds. I find it odd that an industry that generates tens of millions of pounds in revenue in Scotland alone seems to be able to decide almost on a voluntary basis whether it pays the tax. Is that a fair comment?