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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 June 2025
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Displaying 3510 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. I will move on. The potential of cross-border issues as a result of differential taxation has been raised as a concern. When we went on a visit a couple of weeks ago, we were told that there are not many cross-border issues, because the tax is about £2 per tonne and it costs a lot more than that to pay the wages of a driver, to put petrol in the truck and to ship the material hundreds of miles, so the £2 does not have much of an impact.

The Chartered Institute of Taxation’s submission states:

“Scotland exports far more aggregate to rUK than it imports (over 5.5million tonnes compared to 16,000 tonnes)”.

That is obviously a colossal differential. I take it that those aggregates cannot be sourced from elsewhere in the UK. You say that the way in which the bill is structured and the relations between the UK and Scottish Governments mean that Scotland could lose between £8 million and £10 million a year in revenue. Could you expand on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Justine, one of the issues that concern you is the potential impact on other taxes, such as land and buildings transactions tax. Is that right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

You said in your submission that it is “disproportionate”. Further on, you touched on safeguards and said:

“there do not appear to be any safeguards for taxpayers to deal with situations where the taxpayer may not agree that they have failed to pay an amount of tax, because they do not believe the tax is payable.”

What safeguards should be introduced in the bill?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

That is a real issue. If the tax is levied after something has been sent to England, the UK Government gets the tax rather than the Scottish Government.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Of course.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, we would certainly be happy to receive that information. We are expecting the minister at our meeting next week, so if we receive it before then, we can certainly put questions to the minister on the topic.

We have been told anecdotally about unregistered quarries and stuff like that. Scotland is not Russia; it is not a vast expanse of a country. One would have thought that it should be easy enough to find a few unregistered quarries and tax them. It seems bizarre. One would have thought that a legitimate quarry that sells aggregates would say, “That guy down the road isn’t paying his taxes. What are you going to do about it?”

What is the scale of that? We have been told that SEPA can be finicky and pernickety about the licences that registered aggregates producers have, yet it almost seems as though those who are allegedly not registered and not paying any taxes are completely ignored. It just seems bizarre to me.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, indeed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I am not convinced that that is the rationale behind the bill, but there are questions that we can put to people, including the minister when he comes next week. That is an obvious question to put to him and, possibly, Revenue Scotland in the next evidence session.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thanks very much for your evidence.

10:33 Meeting suspended.  

10:45&Բ;&Բ;ܳԲ—&Բ;&Բ;

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

During the second part of our evidence session on the Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill, we will hear from Revenue Scotland. I welcome Elaine Lorimer, chief executive; John McVey, programme manager; and James Lindsay, Scottish aggregates tax design project manager. I understand that Ms Lorimer would like to make a short opening statement.