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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Okay, but how did you come to the figures that you have in the financial memorandum before Police Scotland made its submission, given the fact that you say that you are so heavily reliant on what it has provided?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

What about global decisions? The United Nations climate change conference of the parties meets year in, year out. There is always an element of dismay that it does not go far enough, but what are the implications for decisions that are made at an international level?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Report on Climate Change and Fiscal Sustainability)

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Ah—I thought that I would catch you out there.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Hold on a second. The bill is already a year later than was intended. What efforts have been made to secure data over the past year and before that? I would have thought that that would have been a primary objective before the bill was lodged.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The policy memorandum states that the bill will support the Scottish Government’s ambitions for a circular economy through

“encouraging the minimum necessary exploitation of primary aggregates ... maximising the use of secondary and recycled aggregates, and ... incentivising innovation and development of alternative materials.â€

We are in a world in which the climate is changing rapidly and the world is moving forward quickly, and we are talking about a fairly modest bill that will not be implemented for a couple of years. What will actually be done to fulfil the ambitions? I am not really seeing anything. I am hearing a lot of talk about stability and continuity, but we are talking about a couple of quid a tonne of tax on rock coming out of the ground. I do not see the incredibly complicated picture that you seem to be portraying, minister—surely it is pretty straightforward.

The Scottish Government is not setting out what it would like to see. I know that you are saying that we cannot pre-empt taxes a couple of years ahead, but the tax has been £2 a tonne for 15 years. Where is the incentive for people to invest in a multimillion-pound recycling plant? We visited a facility that invested £4 million, and there is another facility that invested £2.5 million. Others want to recycle to avoid the 700,000 tonnes that went into landfill last year, if the amount of soil can be reduced.

What is being done to achieve that? It looks as if this is going to be a landfill tax that just mirrors what the UK has done for the past 10 years. Is that likely to be the situation 10 years from now? I know that you cannot predict the future, but the direction of travel that I am hearing in all this talk of caution and stability is exactly that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

How much does it cost per mile to ship a tonne of aggregates by truck, for example?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate that, so how much does it cost by rail or by ship? If we are talking about the difference between Scotland and England, what is the elasticity of demand? I asked that in a private briefing with officials and I could not get an answer. The bill has been worked on for a couple of years and I thought that you would have a pretty straightforward answer to that. If you put the tax up from £2 to £3, does that mean that you will not sell any aggregate in England? Will there be a 10 per cent reduction? Will it have no effect whatsoever? Similarly, what will happen if you reduce the tax by £1?

Despite all the talk about moving towards a Scotland where there is more circularity, the financial memorandum makes it look as though, over the next five years, there will be no change whatsoever in the estimated tax take. I appreciate that that might be partly because of the lack of data that you talked about, but it looks as though there is no ambition either to increase or reduce the tax by trying to move people into greater recycling. Of course the industry will sit where it is at the moment, because vested interests always oppose change, do they not?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

If I have a company that has a branch in Manchester, one in Belfast and one in Glasgow, I will know what its output, cost base and profit are. I am really struggling to understand the lack of data. We are talking about millions of tonnes of rock. It is not as if people can hide it—well, apparently, they can hide it, because we have found out that loads of quarries are unregistered.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Kenneth Gibson

It is just that, with the landfill tax, there has been no change or differential from the UK whatsoever, even in relation to inert waste, for example, where there is perhaps more room for manoeuvre.

I will move on, because I have a couple more questions and colleagues want to come in. You have said that you will take a more distinctive approach to compliance. What do you mean by that?

09:30