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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, indeed.

One thing that has been talked about a lot is the issue of overlaps and gaps. I will come to all of you, but I will first go back to you, Ian. Do you feel that we need a Standards Commission for Scotland and an Ethical Standards Commissioner? Is there not an overlap in the remits? Could the two be merged, for example?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Lorna, David and Ian, do you agree with that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

But who is not going to say that? The NHS would say that, the police would say that, and local government would say exactly that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

You think that they are completely distinct.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Where would gaps exist?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

You do not think that that could be more efficiently and effectively done under one umbrella.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

What about you, Brian?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning and welcome to the 15th meeting in 2024 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. The first item on our agenda is to continue to hear evidence in relation to our inquiry into Scotland鈥檚 commissioner landscape. We are joined by Ian Bruce, Ethical Standards Commissioner; Dr Brian Plastow, Scottish Biometrics Commissioner; David Hamilton, Scottish Information Commissioner; and Lorna Johnston, executive director, Standards Commission for Scotland. I welcome you all to the meeting. I am sure that you will be very helpful to our deliberations. I may direct questions at one individual or ask you collectively; it is up to yourselves whether you want to come in on the back of someone else鈥檚 response.

What stimulated the inquiry was, firstly, the rising cost of commissioners, as well as their proliferation. For example, in January we took evidence from the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body on the annual budget round for the current financial year. At that time, we were faced with a 2.6 per cent increase in cash terms in the Scottish budget, which as you know, if you know the gross domestic product deflator, is significantly below the rate of inflation. When we looked at the office-holders, however, we found that the actual funding bids were all significantly in excess of that. For example, the four organisations represented here today made bids as follows: the Scottish Information Commissioner asked for an 8.1 per cent uplift; the Ethical Standards Commissioner for a 13.2 per cent uplift; the Standards Commission for Scotland for a 7.4 per cent uplift; and the Scottish Biometrics Commissioner for 12.4 per cent.

The national health service, the police and so on did not get those kinds of uplifts. Obviously, I have your submissions here but, for the public record, could you say how you feel that those increases are justified at a time of tremendous financial pressure? Who would like to go first? Yes, Brian; you have a fairly small budget, I suppose, although I am interested in hearing from everyone.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Yes. One of the things that you have talked about, for example, is the need to limit the amount of public money being paid by every commissioner for external and internal audit. Those are all cogent points, but I come back to my original point. It just stood out to the committee that there seemed to be quite a significant increase in terms of the allocation of funding to commissioners at a time when more commissioners are in the pipeline. Obviously, that is why we were alerted to this and that is what almost triggered this inquiry, to be perfectly honest with you. Do any other colleagues want to come in?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland鈥檚 Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 30 April 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Again, I could say the same about local government, the police or the NHS. That is the kind of issue that is facing them.