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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 June 2025
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Displaying 3510 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I thank all our guests. We have run slightly over time, but that was worthwhile to get as many contributions as possible. I hope that everyone feels that they have been listened to. We will take your views into account when we produce our pre-budget draft report.

We will continue taking evidence on the sustainability of Scotland鈥檚 finances on 1 October. Next week, we will discuss digitisation and reform with Estonian MPs, officials and relevant organisations because we are off to Estonia for a few days to address those issues.

We will take a five-minute break to allow for a change of witnesses before moving on to our next agenda item, which is about the national performance framework.

10:37 Meeting suspended.  

10:43&苍产蝉辫;翱苍&苍产蝉辫;谤别蝉耻尘颈苍驳鈥&苍产蝉辫;&苍产蝉辫;

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I think that 鈥渓evel of obscurity鈥 says a lot.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The next item on our agenda is our first evidence session in the joint committee inquiry into the Scottish Government鈥檚 proposed national outcomes, which form part of the national performance framework. I welcome to the meeting: Sarah Davidson, chief executive of Carnegie UK; Dr Max French, assistant professor, Newcastle business school, Northumbria University; Dr Alison Hosie, research officer, Scottish Human Rights Commission; and Lukas Bunse, policy and engagement lead, Wellbeing Economy Alliance Scotland.

I intend to allow up to 90 minutes for this session. As with the previous panel, if our witnesses would like to be brought into the discussion at any point, please indicate that to the clerks and I will then call you. I thank you for your written submissions. We will move straight to questions.

One of the first things that I should ask about is the fact that none of you seems to be particularly impressed by the fact that the national performance framework is to continue to be called the national performance framework. Is that right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

That has exhausted the questions from committee members. I will put a further one to Lukas Bunse, but others can contribute if they wish.

You have said that one issue with the national outcomes is that the framework has the potential to reduce inequality, but that splitting inequality across different outcomes means that

鈥渢here is a risk that inequality is not given the prominence it deserves鈥.

12:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. Before we wind up, does any member of the panel wish to make any final points?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. We will put a number of the issues that you have raised today directly to the Scottish Government in the weeks ahead. I thank you all for your contributions today and your excellent submissions.

We will now move into private session to discuss a contingent liability and our work programme. I call a two-minute break to allow our witnesses, the official report and broadcasting to leave.

12:06 Meeting continued in private until 12:25.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I do not think that ours is the only party that has had ideological conflicts, given that we have gone from Corbynism to Starmerism in the space of the past three or four years.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Lewis Ryder-Jones is the only witness who has signalled that he wants to come in. I am hoping that others will be a bit more enthusiastic as we progress.

Lewis, in your submission, you said that

鈥溾榞rowing the economy鈥 cannot be a legitimate priority, without important caveats鈥,

that Scotland鈥檚 income tax system

鈥渃an, and must, do so much more鈥,

and that we must be 鈥渆ven bolder鈥 on income tax. You mentioned council tax as well. Would you like to take up the cudgels?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

What would the perception be of the differences between Scotland and the rest of the UK in that case? It is clear that the new UK Government is not going down that road. I do not think that it has plans to revalue in relation to council tax or to bring in a land tax, for example. How would the change that you suggest impact on the balance in how people perceive Scotland and England in terms of their standard of living?