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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 August 2025
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Displaying 1467 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

In a sense, that is my point about the lack of clarity. In the minds of jurors, they are perhaps not making the hardest of judgments between guilty and not guilty. You have marshalled a number of scenarios in which different perspectives might pertain as they make those decisions.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Do you agree that it would not be wise for the committee to ignore the fact that there is the potential in the relationship of that triumvirate to create a set of circumstances that might lead to quite a large variance of between 3 and 37 per cent?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Our panellists have commented on the unanimity provision that exists in certain other jurisdictions. I am interested in understanding why our tradition is one of majority rather than one of unanimity.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Let us say, for the sake of argument, that the Government’s proposal prevails and that the majority would have to be eight out of 12. You have expressed some reservations about whether that is the appropriate balance. The question that I am airing is: would the committee need to be mindful of other issues, if the Government was intent on pursuing that approach, in order to maintain confidence in the criminal justice system?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

That is exactly what I am getting at.

11:30  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Can I interrupt you for a second, Professor Leverick? That is not what I am asking—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

I totally accept that you cannot do that, but I am interested in what issues we have to consider to ensure fairness to all parties—I stress “all parties”—to a trial.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

Based on your observations of the mock trials, your research suggests a multiplicity of views as to what the verdict means, whether it is that the Crown did not prove its case sufficiently or that the juror wants to send a signal to A N Other.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

In relation to the research work that you undertook, I would be interested to hear whether any differences in perspective or substance of view on the question emerged between the jurors in the sexual assault mock trial and those in the non-sexual assault trial.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

John Swinney

It might be helpful for the committee’s inquiry if we could actually hear why we have not proven as a verdict.