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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 August 2025
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Displaying 1467 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Thank you very much, convener.

Lady Dorrian, one of the remarks that you made just a moment ago was, I thought, of enormous significance, and I would like to develop the thinking a bit further. You talked about the concept of embedding “a new culture”.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Thank you very much.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

That is what I am getting at. The ground that you have covered in that supplementary answer, which is very helpful, addresses some of what I am keen to air as part of the evidence for the committee. It does not have to be about the building of new buildings, because court processes have changed dramatically as a consequence of Covid. Changes will have taken place that people have been trying to make for 50 years, but nobody has been interested in them. They had to happen because of Covid, and, thankfully, they have been retained. Some of the emergency legislation that some people in the Parliament complain about, and which is still in force, is actually quite helpful in addressing some of those challenges. The more you can write to us about that, Mr Fraser, the better.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

My last question is about an issue that we have discussed in previous committee meetings, which is the role of defence counsel in the questioning of witnesses—although this can sometimes also apply to the actions of the Crown. Is that questioning conducted in a fashion that is compatible with the legitimate aspirations of trauma-informed practice, which I entirely endorse?

One line of argument that has been put to us is that we must be satisfied that the right questions are being asked, and in the right fashion, to ensure that a fair trial is being delivered. Obviously, I want trials to be undertaken fairly, but I am concerned that trauma-informed practice might be disregarded in the name of ensuring a fair trial. That relates particularly to the conduct of defence counsel and defence agents. I would be interested to hear your observations about what the court and the judiciary can do to ensure that we have fair trials that are conducted in a fashion that is not damaging to witnesses who come forward in good faith.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Have you had to do so?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Great—thank you for that.

My last question is about the issue, which we have long debated, of whether part of the reason for the successful or unsuccessful prosecution of sexual crimes has been about quality of evidence. I am interested to know your thoughts. Do you consider that there is any danger that your suggestions could lead to a reduction in the quality of evidence that is available? Is there a sense that evidence by commission is not as sturdy as evidence that is gathered in some other fashion?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

That strikes me as being absolutely consistent with the aspiration for trauma-informed practice to minimise the negative experience for a witness.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Please do.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

My final question is about the procedures of a specialist court. I am going to raise specific material from the bill, although I acknowledge that it is not for the Lord Advocate to argue for the bill. Section 55 states:

“The provisions of the 1995 Act apply to proceedings in the Sexual Offences Court as though the proceedings were taking place in the High Court of Justiciary”.

My reading of that, as a layman, makes me a little worried that that means that we will not have a fresh start. Reassure me on that point.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Do you see progress being made in eroding the delays that exist?