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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 August 2025
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Displaying 1467 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statements and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

John Swinney

That last point completes the proportionality argument. At some point, we have to make a call that, on the basis of the best clinical assessment that we can get of the three factors of vaccine escape, transmissibility and serious illness, this is the moment to act. I accept that we might not have all the demonstrable evidence鈥攐r, indeed, the conclusive certainty鈥攖o support such a conclusion, but the fact is that the Government has been making such judgments since March 2020.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statements and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

John Swinney

Yes鈥攖hank you, convener. I am grateful to the committee for the opportunity to discuss a number of matters, including updates to Parliament this week and last week on Covid-19 and the incidents to which the convener has just referred.

As set out by the First Minister on Tuesday, although case numbers in Scotland have continued to fall, the emergence of the omicron variant is deeply worrying, and it requires a proportionate and precautionary response. There are now confirmed cases of omicron in Scotland and Public Health Scotland is working hard to identify any and all cases as quickly as possible.

There are indications that omicron might be more transmissible than the delta variant, which is currently dominant in Scotland. However, at present, there is no evidence to indicate that the disease that is caused by omicron is more severe than that caused by other variants. Our understanding of the new variant is developing, and we will know more鈥攅specially about the protection that is provided by vaccines鈥攊n the days and weeks ahead, thanks to the dedication of scientists across the world.

Although I very much hope that our level of concern will reduce in coming weeks, our precautionary approach is the right one for now. As the First Minister set out on Tuesday, at this stage, we are not introducing additional health protection measures beyond some necessary travel restrictions. Instead, we are asking everyone to renew their focus on following existing protections. We need people to wear face coverings where required, maintain good hygiene, work from home wherever possible, ventilate indoor spaces and test themselves regularly. Those protections are especially important as cold weather and the possibility of festive gatherings mean that we might be spending more time inside with other people.

This week, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation updated its advice, such that 1 million more people are now eligible for booster vaccines. That is good news, as we know that vaccines are effective and save lives. Indeed, according to a study published last week by the World Health Organization, there might be more than 27,000 people in Scotland who are alive today only because of the vaccines.

With more than 88 per cent of the adult population having had two doses of the vaccine and more than 93 per cent having had one dose, Scottish ministers now consider it proportionate to amend the certification scheme to include negative test results. The change will make it possible for people who cannot be vaccinated, who are not yet fully protected, or who have received a vaccine that is not recognised by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, to be able to attend venues that are covered by the scheme.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Requirements) (Scotland) Amendment (No 4) Regulations 2021 make the necessary amendments to the Covid-19 certification scheme. With effect from 5 am on Monday 6 December, the scheme will allow people to show a record of a negative test for coronavirus that was taken in the 24 hours prior to attending a venue as an alternative to proof of vaccination.

Certification continues to play a role in helping us to increase vaccine uptake, reduce the risk of coronavirus transmission, alleviate pressure on our health and care services, and allow higher-risk settings to continue to operate. It is an alternative to more restrictive measures, such as capacity limits, early closing times or closure.

I am very happy to answer questions from the committee.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statements and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

John Swinney

Essentially, we want the regulations to be in place to facilitate an increased level of protection and assurance in the run-up to the festive period. From 6 December onwards, people will be engaged in activities that are habitually associated with Christmas, including retail and hospitality opportunities. Putting in place the regulations at a moment when we are preparing for such events is the pragmatic approach that the Government wants to take to maximise protection and to maximise the involvement of members of the public in the assurance that we are trying to create.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statements and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

John Swinney

There are a number of points in the question and scenario that you have put to me. The first point is that a key response is the necessity of ensuring that baseline health protection measures are habitually followed by everybody in all circumstances, including when going for a polymerase chain reaction test. Important measures that should be applied include ensuring that people are wearing face coverings in the appropriate settings and following the basic hand hygiene measures. All those measures are critical at all times. Members will be aware that, in our public messaging in Parliament and in our wider public messaging through television advertising and so on, the Government is regularly reinforcing those messages.

The second point is that the greatest care must be taken by individuals when going for PCR tests. In the scenario that you put to me, if a whole carload of people from the same family are being tested, it is understandable that they are all in the car. However, I encourage only the people who need a PCR test to go, and to observe all the hygiene measures that are appropriate in such circumstances.

Finally, when it comes to observing self-isolation, the requirements could not be clearer. If an individual has symptoms or cause to secure a PCR test, or if they have undertaken a lateral flow test and tested positive, that should instantaneously bring about a change in behaviour, because that person is potentially infectious. That individual must take every care in their movements and in observing the appropriate restrictions to ensure that they minimise the risk of transmission.

I assure the individuals who have contacted the committee that those messages are uppermost in the Government鈥檚 communications.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statements and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

John Swinney

Clinical points might mean that there is no justification for doing so because there may be sufficient vaccine protection for a sufficient length of time. The disease is new, so clinicians and scientists are trying to work their way through to the best answer. Their judgment was that the gap should be six months. The JCVI has revised that to three months.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statements and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

John Swinney

No, the lateral flow test will not appear in the app.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statements and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

John Swinney

The app has been revised to include the booster jag; we expect that to be completed and the update to be available in early December. A critical date is 15 December, when a number of European countries will make it mandatory for booster jags to be evidenced on Covid vaccine certificates, and the update will be in place by then.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statements and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

John Swinney

I will bring in Professor Leitch because of the clinical nature of some of the points.

Obviously, the vaccine will wane. Over the past few weeks and past two months, there was an increase in cases in the older age groups. Then, when the booster vaccination programme started to kick in for those age groups, the number of cases for them came down more aggressively than for other age groups. Professor Leitch can tell me if I have got this wrong, but I deduce from that that the vaccine was waning but the booster arrested that and gave more protection.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 1 December 2021

John Swinney

It is always helpful to have experts to hand, convener.

I would make two points in response to Mr Ewing鈥檚 question. First, a further instrument that will come to the committee in due course will look at circumstances in which there might be recovery of redress payments. The instrument under consideration does not affect that matter, but the further instrument will deal with recovery of such payments in cases where concerns have been raised. As I have said, that will come before the committee in due course.

Secondly, if it is suspected that an application has been made fraudulently, the matter will be dealt with under common-law powers on the handling of fraud issues. The matter could potentially be referred to Police Scotland for consideration as a criminal offence, in line with common-law powers.

09:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 1 December 2021

John Swinney

Yes, that is correct.