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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 August 2025
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Displaying 1467 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

We have within our staff members a broad range of such characteristics. I might invite Lesley Fraser to say more about this, as it falls within civil service territory, but it is an active recruitment鈥攐r, I should say, personnel鈥攑riority for the Scottish Government to make our employment as diverse as we can. We have a number of networks in the organisation with which we regularly discuss staff matters; those discussions are conducted through civil service channels, and a huge amount of energy is taken up with ensuring that that dialogue is appropriate.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

That is a fair point. I like to think that the procedure will never be used; I hope that we have a culture that avoids the necessity to use it.

However, if, as I hope, the procedure is seldom used, there is a risk that it will not be given the necessary focus of review. Therefore, we are building into the work that is undertaken a focus on continuous improvement. We want, through our dialogue with staff trade unions and staff representatives, to identify issues. Given the volume of open dialogue and communication on the policy approach that we are taking, it is appropriate for me to thank the staff trade unions, which have contributed a huge amount of time to helping us with development of the approach.

One of the lessons that we have learned is about how important a constant channel of open communication is to ensuring that we take the right policy approach. That will be the focus of our work to review the procedure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

That is crucial at every stage of the proceedings鈥攏ot just at the appeal stage. The investigation stage, for example, will be carried out by an investigator, and their report will be passed at stage 3 to a decision maker, who will be a different person. If there is to be an appeal, it will be handled by another, entirely different, person. That fundamentally recognises the importance of ensuring that individuals have no prior involvement at any stage of proceedings as the issues are properly addressed鈥攏ot only to address the issue of trust but to guarantee independence and transparency.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

There is a special adviser code, which channels considerations about special advisers through a civil service channel, with a few unique elements added on. The code essentially specifies that they are temporary civil servants, so they have the obligations and the rights of civil servants in relation to how they are handled in the employment sense. They have a couple of additional obligations and opportunities around the space of political engagement, which civil servants do not have. That is all regulated by the special adviser code. The issues that affect special advisers are fully and properly considered by the nature of their code, which channels them into the civil service grouping.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

Ultimately, convener, there will be a judgment about the appropriate timescale. Three months feels to me to be a bit abrupt and a year feels a bit too long, so six months feels like an appropriate judgment to come to.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

Hierarchy is not exclusive to the civil service. I am sometimes struck by the obvious signs of anxiety that some civil servants exhibit in having to appear in front of someone as mild mannered as me, and I try to take account of that in how I deal with issues. It can be obvious that people are anxious about what lies ahead of them. It is important that, as part of the culture, there is an understanding of the effect that that has on the interaction of people who are in different positions when it comes to the exercise of power and responsibility. Having a respectful environment is absolutely fundamental to that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

Whistleblowing covers the entitlement of members of staff to raise their concerns without fear and favour, so that the concerns can be addressed. That is what the policy is designed to do, if necessary.

The requirement to maintain confidentiality is about creating an appropriate climate and a trusted and respectful environment in which genuine issues can be properly aired, addressed and resolved.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

That might mean identification of aspects of procedure or working practice that need to be addressed as a consequence of a case. It essentially puts the onus on us鈥擨 referred to this in my response to the convener鈥攖o constantly improve how we operate as an organisation in order to ensure that no opportunity to learn lessons is missed in the handling of an issue.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

I think that we are in a good place. I think that we have a good working culture in the Scottish Government. The environment between ministers and civil servants is appropriate and respectful. Through their actions, the permanent secretary and his team have the proper responsibility for the creation of the work environment. It might be appropriate for Lesley Fraser to talk a little about that, as the director general who leads on those questions. Fundamentally, I think that there is a good, respectful working environment. There is respect for the respective contributions of ministers and civil servants, and there is an understanding of and respect for the fact that civil servants advise but ministers decide. That advice is provided in the context that there should be no anxiety about the testing of advice, so that we can focus on the real, clear, substantive issues that need to be addressed and, as a consequence, the Government can take good decisions. Lesley might wish to say a little about that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

John Swinney

I suppose that there is nothing to prevent them from bringing along a lawyer but, fundamentally, we are trying to set the process in the context of the resolution of the issues in an employment space rather than a legal space.