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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 1428 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

We have not decided yet about the block grant adjustment. We will make that decision in due course, as part of our budget considerations. It is one thing to devolve the power; however, if the funding is not devolved the benefit is, in effect, half devolved.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

If I remember correctly, the fiscal framework enables us to defer block grant adjustments: that is part of the fiscal framework. The question for us is to ask what makes sense, which is why those discussions are on-going. We will be fully transparent once decisions are brought to a conclusion.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

My understanding is that, this winter, the winter fuel payment will be made to Scottish recipients by the Department for Work and Pensions. That will continue. The year after that, it will be issued through Social Security Scotland. A whole new system would have had to be set up for universal payment through Social Security Scotland. That could not be done. It was going to go ahead, but it is now not happening because we do not have the £160 million to deliver it. The payment will have to be delivered like for like with what is delivered this year by the DWP, because of timing. I think that that has all been set out to the Parliament.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

We would get the £160 million, and the payment would have been administered through Social Security Scotland. However, that funding was to come on an on-going basis. It is not, now. If we were to defer the block grant adjustment for a year and pay the benefit for one year, we would have to set up a whole system to pay that benefit universally, with absolutely no chance of its continuing.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

If things had continued, and the money was going to come with the power, as we had planned for—the power has come to us, but not the money—we would be delivering a winter fuel payment on a universal basis from Scotland this winter. The fact that that did not happen meant that we had to stop the work, and Social Security Scotland stopped its recruitment, because we could not possibly have set up a whole system to pay people for one year, delaying the block grant adjustment for a year, then saying, “Oh well, you’re going now.â€

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

The reconciliation of the money happens either this year or next year. There is no gain—it is just a question of in which year the money is reconciled.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

I go back to the point that I made earlier about us having a bit of self-regulation. I am going to write to the committee with the detail of our assumptions on that. However, we have internal rules about what our assumptions are, and we have the £3 billion limit. Fiscal framework adjustments have been helpful for inflation proofing those elements of the framework. However, we want to ensure that anything that we do in relation to capital debt is deemed to be prudent and affordable.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

I think that it was assumed that there was an alignment with the objectives. It is not that the programme for government was saying that everything that had gone before was not important; instead, it was elevating things of absolutely critical importance and saying that they would come first and foremost in the budget discussion.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

No. I look forward to further engagement with the committee on the budget as we go forward.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Shona Robison

I do not accept that. However, I accept that we have, in essence, been trying to make a budget work through a set of absolutely chaotic UK Government decisions, although those decisions have now become less chaotic. Looking to 2025-26 and beyond, that is extremely helpful.

However, trying to set a budget, pay policy or anything else with absolutely no idea of the funding that you will get is really difficult. This might sound basic, but our having an idea earlier in the year what the budget will be and what funding we can expect to receive from the UK Government would be transformational.

I will mention one point before it goes out of my head. Anyone who is involved in negotiations understands their complexity, and the importance of not driving pay inflation and of recognising that it is not just about pay but about making efficiencies, as part of the settlement. For example, in rail, part of the pay deal was linked to making efficiencies.

I would not cut the health budget in order to have contingency in case the pay increase goes up to 5 per cent. Instead, we would look at anything that was above the parameters that we have set to be paid for through efficiency gains and productivity gains. We have to be careful about what we say in pay policy, otherwise it drives scenarios that are not helpful for the public purse. I do not want to cut budgets while we are in the process of negotiating, because that just drives wage inflation. We have to be careful about what we are setting out and what our expectations are.

I will, of course—I do—look carefully at comments from the Fraser of Allander Institute, the SFC and others. However, I re-emphasise how complex pay is and how important it is for us to be very careful about how we land pay policy.