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There is definitely more work to be done as per the Christie recommendations to focus more resources upstream for prevention. I absolutely agree with that, but it is not the easiest thing to do. We need to find ways, not least through Covid recovery, to work with organisations and local government to look at how that can be done, because we know that spend is more effective in that space.

You asked a number of questions about the size of the budget. In essence, decisions about the balance of the budget are for Government. Decisions about taxation in Scotland, at least to the extent that such powers are within devolved competence, need to be informed by an understanding of the resources needed to address areas of human rights deficiency or a weakness. Taxation is one of the principal means of ensuring that those resources are available, but, with regard to Covid recovery, there is a balance to be struck between revenue raising and supporting businesses, communities and families to recover.

In our spend over the Covid period, you will see expenditure of £2.5 billion on supporting low-income households. Obviously, it was a deliberate policy decision to recognise that the impact of Covid has not been equally felt. Recognising that means that we then have to act in a particular way in following through our policy and budget decisions. Through the Covid recovery strategy, which will be closely aligned to the budget, you would expect to see more of that cohesive thinking across decisions making. Government always has to make tough decisions, particularly on budgets, because there is never enough money to do absolutely everything that we want to do—there never has been. Therefore, decisions have to be made and we have to be more strategic. The task that the Cabinet has set itself is to see what more we can do to tackle child poverty. If everything is a priority, nothing is a priority, so we have had to be very clear about the priorities for Government and, therefore, the budget. I hope that that will be clear, once the budget process is properly under way.

The EBAG recommendations that were made earlier this year are important. In the programme for government, which was published last month, we made a clear commitment to further embed equalities and human rights in all stages of the Scottish Government’s budget process, taking into account those recommendations.

The EBAG recommendations were shared with me when I came into my post back in May and they were published just a couple of months after that. We have been giving them careful consideration, including as part of the forthcoming budgetary cycle, and of our longer-term budget improvement and equality and human rights mainstreaming work. I have agreed to renew EBAG’s mandate for another year to allow further development of our collective thinking, and I plan to meet Professor Angela O’Hagan, the chair, in early November to discuss EBAG’s work and its recommendations further. Thereafter, we will seek to set out our thinking on the next steps in spring next year. I would be happy to update the committee at that time.

Members will be aware that the recommendations were presented under the four themes of improving processes, communications, organisation and culture, and knowledge and understanding. There is a lot to consider, but I am happy to come back to the committee with further detail.

The point about the third sector having a seat at the table with regard to the economic strategy has been raised with me directly. That remains under discussion. The role of the third sector, not least in Covid recovery, is fundamental, and in my discussions with third sector organisations, I have made the point that the Government recognises that.

On the requests from 2019, I might have to write to the committee. That was before my time in this role, but I am happy to write to update committee members on what has been done since then.

You make a good point. The Scottish Government and the agencies across Scotland for which we have responsibility collect, analyse and publish evidence and analysis by equality characteristic across a wide range of policy areas. There are many barriers and challenges to collecting, analysing and reporting equality data. Despite improvements in recent years, there are still gaps in the equality evidence base. In April this year, we launched the first phase of our equality data improvement programme in order to take action to make equality evidence more wide ranging and robust. A stronger and more complete equality evidence base will help to support the collective effort across the public sector and ensure that the requirements of the public sector equality duty are fulfilled.

The programme will be undertaken over the next 18 months, and I am hopeful that major improvements will flow from it. You mentioned the issue of sample size. The first phase of the improvement programme comprises a series of projects that will focus on the process elements of equality data collection, including sample size. The programme is in the early phase, but I am happy to ensure that we keep the committee abreast of developments.

On data gaps regarding ethnicity, our “Race Equality Immediate Priorities Plan”, which was published on 14 September, has at its heart the data improvement and systemic change recommendations that have been made to us by the expert reference group on Covid-19 and ethnicity. We absolutely recognise that issue.

A lot of improvement work is going on, and we are happy to keep the committee updated on it.

Good morning, everyone, and thanks for the invitation to give evidence on the equality, inclusion and human rights budget as part of your pre-budget scrutiny.

As you are aware, Covid-19 has highlighted the deep-rooted inequalities that exist in our society. It is vital that, as we move to the next stages of our renewal and recovery work, we use the opportunity to make fundamental and lasting changes to address those inequalities.

Equality, inclusion and human rights continue to lie at the heart of our approach to budgeting. In forming spending plans, ministers must take into account the impact that their decisions will have on equality considerations. The Minister for Equalities and Older People and I will continue to work closely with ministerial colleagues to support those considerations.

I am also pleased to note that the committee has written to subject committees encouraging them

“to consider the implications for equalities and human rights on their own subjects, as part of their pre-budget scrutiny.”

That is a genuinely cross-cutting issue, which remains everyone’s business.

In the 2021-22 budget, the equality, inclusion and human rights budget lines increased to £36.6 million. That was a significant increase of around 35 per cent from the 2019-20 budget position, which signals the Scottish Government’s commitment to that work.

Since May, we have started the development of a new five-year £10 million plan to tackle social isolation and loneliness, with £1 million in funding for organisations this year and the remainder over the parliamentary session. We have also delivered the new equality and human rights fund, thereby increasing the funding that is available by more than £1 million a year to £7 million per annum over the next three years and supporting 48 projects across Scotland.

Although I recognise that this is outwith the committee’s remit, my portfolio also provides significant investment to tackle violence against women and girls and to support refugees and asylum seekers. I am happy to go into detail about that during the meeting.

The new streamlined funding streams will more closely align our funding with the national performance framework outcomes and will encourage and support partnership working to tackle some of the more entrenched issues of inequality across our society.

I also welcome the committee’s focus on human rights budgeting in its evidence-taking sessions to date. In our programme for government, we committed to

“further embed equality and human rights within all stages of the Scottish Government’s Budget process, taking account of the Equality Budget Advisory Group’s recommendations”.

The equality budget advisory group presented ministers and Scottish Government with a set of recommendations on equality and human rights budgeting earlier in 2021. Those are being considered as part of our on-going work around budgeting.

I look forward to working with the committee and to members’ questions.

You will be aware that the EBAG recommendations state that public participation in formulating budget commitments and ensuring the integration of lived experience and policy decisions are essential. Key aspects of equality and human rights budgeting are transparency of the budget process and documentation and the ability for people to engage and understand the budget, because it is quite a complex set of processes. It is complex for ministers, let alone folk who have not been through the process before. We recognise that there is work to do to improve transparency and participation in the budgeting process.

As part of our response to those recommendations, we will consider how best that is achieved and through what routes. As part of the wider objective to make Scottish fiscal information more accessible and understandable, the financial transparency programme is intended to help with the timely publication of accessible information, such as by using more data visualisations, infographics and open data, with clear explanations of the context. That approach is intended to support an improved understanding of how the Scottish Government’s budget is allocated and spent, thereby improving scrutiny by external and internal stakeholders.

It is work in progress, but we recognise that there is more to do. We have been looking at examples of good practice from elsewhere in the world. We need to keep the improvement work going.

If I do not manage to cover every single aspect, I will write to the committee to capture everything.

Social care funding is an area of responsibility for Humza Yousaf and Kevin Stewart. As you will be aware, Humza Yousaf will make a statement that will outline some of the Government’s thinking in that regard. The Scottish Government has been clear that one of the benefits of a national care service would be improving the terms and conditions of the workforce which, as you pointed out, is predominantly female. That will help to address the inequalities and improve the fair work agenda in that workforce.

You talked about the disability benefits. You are right that that is the next big area of responsibility for Social Security Scotland. The child disability payment scheme is being piloted and will be rolled out from 22 November. Work continues apace on the adult disability payments.

There are a lot of detailed considerations going on. The Scottish Commission on Social Security has been considering the detail of the benefits as well. We want to ensure not only that the transition of those benefits is safe and secure but that we quickly review them once the case transfer is under way. We will work with the committee and other stakeholders to ensure that we can make improvements to those benefits.

I do not know whether I have managed to give a top response to the issues that you raised.

We could probably get better at trying to involve the third sector. It is a big sector that ranges from big strategic national organisations through to very small local organisations and, given the nature of the budget process, our engagement on the budget is more likely to be with those larger strategic organisations. Over the years, we have simplified the budget process and made the budget more accessible, which helps third sector organisations to see what it looks like, how it works and how it hangs together.

I ask Trevor Owen whether he would like to add anything about the third sector involvement.

I understand the very real point that third sector organisations make that they want multiyear funding to allow them to plan their work over the long term. I have a lot of sympathy for that. When the Scottish Government is working with a one-year budget because the United Kingdom Government is working with a one-year spending review and budget, that makes it very difficult to give certainty, because we do not have certainty. However, we have made a commitment that we want to try to work towards that over a number of years, because it allows longer-term planning. I absolutely understand and agree with that point.

On the strategic work, the process of embedding equality and looking at everything that we do through an equality lens and a human rights lens is a work in progress. We have got a lot better at doing that, and we now have a lot of expertise, although there is work to be done. EBAG has really shown where the weaknesses are that need to be worked on. We will constantly try to improve. In March next year, we hope to be able to say more about further improvements that we can make.

We should distinguish between the two things. The disability benefits will have to transfer essentially using similar criteria, albeit that they will have to be delivered in a very different way, for all the reasons that were laid out to the Social Security Committee in the previous parliamentary session. Otherwise, we would not be able to transfer the benefits in the timeframe allowed, and it would create a confusing landscape if we had two different benefits working to two different sets of criteria. We need to get the benefits transferred and then review the eligibility criteria, payments and so on.

However, you mentioned the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and you are absolutely right to say that the focus was very much on the six priority family types. We know that 80 per cent of children who live in poverty are located within the six priority family types and, of course, one of those types is families that have a person with a disability living in them. I said yesterday at a session with the JRF that the Government’s focus is on other areas and game-changing policies that we can bring to the table alongside the Scottish child payment. Part of that is getting alongside the six priority family types and identifying bespoke solutions for them. What are the barriers faced by the family with the disabled person in the family that prevent them from getting access to work or to other services and support that could improve their lives?

The Government is focusing on that area at the moment. Once we have identified how we are going to do that, I will be happy to come back to the committee with that information. Those policies are very much our focus, because we know that they can have a huge impact on child poverty if we get them right.