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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 August 2025
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Displaying 617 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 13 March 2025

Sarah Boyack

On Jeremy Balfour鈥檚 comment about people鈥檚 voices not being heard, even when people鈥檚 voices are heard, what happens next? At a meeting of the cross-party group on sustainable transport the other week, we were talking about disability, and we realised just what a huge project it is to make transport accessible. Our cross-party group is doing work on equalities. We will send it in to the Government, but again the question is: what happens next? In that respect, there is something to be said for the always-on approach of a commissioner, and having somebody in place who has that responsibility.

When I look back, I am struck by the work of the Christie commission over a decade ago and its message about investing now in order not to have to pay later, and keeping people well and healthy instead of trying to cure them afterwards, which is much more expensive. Moreover, we do not have a co-ordinated and coherent approach to the sustainable development goals.

We do not lack people lobbying us or coming up to us as multitasking 成人快手 on committees, in our constituencies and regions and in the chamber, but there is something to be said for having that other focus.

For me, it all comes back to having specific guidance, having best practice to look at and being able to get people around the table. Things will not happen without those.

Let me give you an example from Wales. We had feedback from the first Future Generations Commissioner for Wales, who talked about engaging with the Welsh NHS. A new hospital was being built, and when she asked about the climate impact, she was told, 鈥淭hat鈥檚 not our job鈥攚e鈥檙e the NHS.鈥 Then she asked whether they were going to put in a solar farm, and she was told that it would be a 鈥渘ice to have鈥. The solar farm was put in after that engagement and conversation, and it now makes a profit that goes into the Welsh NHS.

The fact is that everybody is just in their own bloc. A commissioner鈥檚 role is additional to that of an MSP; they are not Government officials, and they are able to come back and report to the Parliament. I think that having commissioners adds capacity to our Parliament. The issue is how to manage them, which was the convener鈥檚 first question. There are lessons to be learned, but if you just say, 鈥淩ight鈥攖here鈥檒l be nothing鈥, what happens to the issues that are not being addressed? For example, we have three climate acts, but we are still not cutting it on that matter.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 13 March 2025

Sarah Boyack

There might be different models that could be used. However, independence from the Government is critical. There is a challenge for many existing bodies: you could ask them to increase their number of priorities or to do more coherent cross-Government or cross-policy thinking but, if it is not in their day job and they do not have the capacity to do it, it will not happen.

One part of my proposed bill is about establishing a commissioner, and two parts are about having a clear definition of sustainable development and wellbeing, and introducing a public duty to promote them. However, even if both those components of my bill were to be passed, the extra scrutiny still would not happen鈥攂ecause who would be checking up on it?

There are different types of commissioners, and I know that some of them have different roles. However, we need to think about what changes we want to make. For me, the changes are about implementation鈥攎aking things happen and accountability鈥攁nd that comes back to the Parliament.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 13 March 2025

Sarah Boyack

It is simply not happening, though. We need a push to make it happen and to kick the issue up the agenda. If organisations do not see that role as an immediate part of the day job, who is going to do it?

All public sector organisations are under pressure. One group that I have not mentioned so far that would be covered by my proposed bill is local authorities. We know that they are under pressure, and my bill would help by giving them support and advice and helping them to share best practice. It would also provide focus, because it would mean that there could be an investigation if it was clear that clearly defined legislation was not being implemented. It is about going beyond thinking about the issue as a nice to have or thinking, 鈥淲e鈥檝e legislated on this, so we tick the box and move on.鈥 The scrutiny is not happening in real life.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 13 March 2025

Sarah Boyack

Pressure on committees is definitely an issue. They need expertise and support, as we can see when committees appoint experts for short pieces of work in addition to the Scottish Parliament information centre鈥檚 capacity. We could increase that capacity through annual reporting, so that commissioners report to specific committees. A commissioner would have an expectation of which committee it might report to, but it might have done work in one year that relates more to another committee than the one to which it previously reported, so that would be an issue.

The points that you make about pressure on the SPCB are important. Could the Scottish Commission for Public Audit provide overarching support that would help to prevent the SPCB鈥檚 having to do everything? It goes back to the question earlier about why we choose the SPCB model鈥攚e do so because we know it and it works. That relates to why the committee is doing the inquiry. What lessons can be learned?

There are ways in which we could support commissioners without overwhelming the SPCB, and if we think about what capacity exists, there are definitely wins to be had, which would be a big benefit for our committees and help us to learn from best practice and experience.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 February 2025

Sarah Boyack

That is very kind; I will take that.

I will follow up on the link between access to services and funding. The stats on supported bus services and the impact of bus service cuts show that the impact is falling disproportionately on people who are already in deprived groups, and how it affects rural and peripheral urban areas is clearly an issue because people have a bus pass, but they cannot necessarily use it. We had a cross-party group meeting on sustainable transport, and that is what the young people said. They said that they loved the concept of a bus pass, but that it is not much use if they do not have a bus to use it on. What is the joined-up approach to give people access to bus services?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Regulation

Meeting date: 25 February 2025

Sarah Boyack

Would it be possible to get a briefing on that so that we can translate what you have said into what that change means for people? It sounds very nice, but I would like to know how people put in a complaint and ask for information. As I understand it, the system no longer involves speaking to someone鈥攊t is an automated system. Could you provide us with a briefing on what that means?

Does the redeployment of staff mean that nobody has lost their job? I was told that staff redundancies were coming.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Regulation

Meeting date: 25 February 2025

Sarah Boyack

It would be good to get a briefing on that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Regulation

Meeting date: 25 February 2025

Sarah Boyack

The questions follow the discussion about the increased climate impact and nature emergencies that our constituents are experiencing.

SEPA recently updated its assessment of areas that will potentially be vulnerable to flooding between 2028 and 2034. Can you give us an update on that assessment? Has there been much change in the vulnerable areas for that period? I am very conscious that businesses and constituents are increasingly having problems just getting insurance for their properties. It is a real-life issue, now.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 February 2025

Sarah Boyack

From looking at it, it is about having a joined-up approach. If we are here next year having a similar discussion, is it your expectation that we will have the same number of bus services or fewer bus services, and what is the geographic impact of that likely to be?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 February 2025

Sarah Boyack

Thank you. I can say that, as a bus user in an area where I get to use my bus pass, it is fantastic, because we have buses in my region. On the edge of the region, however, I can see the difference. Bus services have to be higher up the political agenda.