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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 1264 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

Do you know why?

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

I am sorry, but I am not accepting that. You have already told the committee that the decision was signed off by headquarters, so nobody second guessed. Which is it? In evidence to the committee, you said that the decision was signed off by headquarters. Am I right?

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

So how was it second guessed?

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

You seem to be questioning what was said. Again, I point to the statement that was made by Rhona Hotchkiss, the former governor of Cornton Vale. She said:

“... it is always an issue to have trans women in with female prisoners.”

That means that it affects not only one prisoner. Do you accept what Rhona Hotchkiss said?

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

So, what was said is not true. The problem I have is that, every time I ask a question, I get management speak in response, and it is the same with the deputy governor. I am trying to get some clarity. Rhona Hotchkiss has been the governor of Cornton Vale, so do you think her assessment is fair?

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

Is it not the experience that you had?

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

When you say “information”, do you mean that they had self-identified? Can we be clear about this? Please do not give me any more—

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

That was the reason.

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

I know what you are saying but, given that headquarters signed off the decision, what would have been the risk in segregating the prisoner elsewhere? Surely, there would have been no risk. I do not know whether there is a segregation unit in Greenock, but I know that there is one in Barlinnie. What would have been the risk in doing that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Transgender Prisoners and Scottish Prisons

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Pauline McNeill

Okay. I am sorry. I was confused by the phrase “second guess”. You are talking about hindsight, with us knowing what we all know now.

Thank you for that.