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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 May 2025
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Displaying 1190 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

I am not meaning that. It is about the jury numbers. It has been suggested that, if we go for a majority of 10 out of 15, we would be an outlier. However, we were already an outlier under the original proposals in the bill. My question is whether we should accept that we are going to be an outlier or whether we try to bring ourselves into line—I do not like using the term “into line”, but you know what I mean. Should we mimic another jurisdiction, so that we are not an outlier? That is what I am trying to get at. Does that make sense?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

But you do not think that it—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Is it also fair to say that there has already been quite a bit of change, even as we have been discussing the bill? We have heard about the change to corroboration, for example.

12:30  

In my experience of the justice system, change often happens through decisions that are made in court. For example, the supreme court is currently looking at section 275 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995. Whether change should happen in the courts or in Parliament is perhaps a moot point, but it does happen in the courts.

Is it fair to say that there has already been quite a bit of change? I would include in that the fact that the Lord Advocate herself, and some of the victims in their testimonies in evidence to us, have said that they see a bit of a change in the Crown’s approach to involving victims a bit more in their cases.

I suppose that my question is a yes-or-no one. Do you agree that you can get quite a bit of change without legislating for it? That is really what you have been saying, I suppose.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

My question is, how do you resolve the situation if you are worried that Scotland would be an outlier? Do we just be the outlier and adjust our system, bearing in mind that removing the not proven verdict would apply not just to sexual offences cases, but to all cases that go before the court? Surely England must have some equivalent to corroboration.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Thank you—that is helpful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Is that for sexual offences cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

For all offences?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Right.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

I hope that this does not need to be said, but I think that we all agree that the treatment of victims in our court system is completely unsatisfactory and we need change—that is my view, anyway. The question is what kind of change is going to make a difference. We have specialist courts—we have the drugs courts and domestic abuse courts, which were introduced without legislation. Do you agree that we could, in theory, set up a specialist court of the High Court and the sheriff court without legislation? We have done that previously.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

My next question—