The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
The Official Report search offers lots of different ways to find the information you’re looking for. The search is used as a professional tool by researchers and third-party organisations. It is also used by members of the public who may have less parliamentary awareness. This means it needs to provide the ability to run complex searches, and the ability to browse reports or perform a simple keyword search.
The web version of the Official Report has three different views:
Depending on the kind of search you want to do, one of these views will be the best option. The default view is to show the report for each meeting of Parliament or a committee. For a simple keyword search, the results will be shown by item of business.
When you choose to search by a particular MSP, the results returned will show each spoken contribution in Parliament or a committee, ordered by date with the most recent contributions first. This will usually return a lot of results, but you can refine your search by keyword, date and/or by meeting (committee or Chamber business).
We’ve chosen to display the entirety of each MSP’s contribution in the search results. This is intended to reduce the number of times that users need to click into an actual report to get the information that they’re looking for, but in some cases it can lead to very short contributions (“Yes.”) or very long ones (Ministerial statements, for example.) We’ll keep this under review and get feedback from users on whether this approach best meets their needs.
There are two types of keyword search:
If you select an MSP’s name from the dropdown menu, and add a phrase in quotation marks to the keyword field, then the search will return only examples of when the MSP said those exact words. You can further refine this search by adding a date range or selecting a particular committee or Meeting of the Parliament.
It’s also possible to run basic Boolean searches. For example:
There are two ways of searching by date.
You can either use the Start date and End date options to run a search across a particular date range. For example, you may know that a particular subject was discussed at some point in the last few weeks and choose a date range to reflect that.
Alternatively, you can use one of the pre-defined date ranges under “Select a time period”. These are:
If you search by an individual session, the list of łÉČËżěĘÖ and committees will automatically update to show only the łÉČËżěĘÖ and committees which were current during that session. For example, if you select Session 1 you will be show a list of łÉČËżěĘÖ and committees from Session 1.
If you add a custom date range which crosses more than one session of Parliament, the lists of łÉČËżěĘÖ and committees will update to show the information that was current at that time.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 131 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
I will review matters. For example, as I have said, I have gone over the submission of 8 October, and the decision—many times, actually. I have tried to put myself in the shoes of the minister and to think whether, based on all the information, I would have taken the same decision. Based on all that information, I think that the decision—based on what was known—was, at the time, a reasonable decision to have taken. Based on what we know now, we of course wish that we had taken a different decision.
One of the things that I will reflect on, as I do regularly, is the expectation of and requirement on the organisation of the Scottish Government about when things should be brought to my attention.
To be fair to Derek Mackay, let me be clear that, had that submission of 8 October been brought to my attention, and based on everything that was in it, I am not saying that I would have reached a different decision. I do not think that I would have done. However, with hindsight, perhaps it should have been brought to my attention.
I will reflect on all those things. Again, I have looked at this many times—and again, it is all with the benefit of hindsight, but that is important, sometimes: should we have taken more quickly some of the decisions that ultimately led to nationalisation?
I will always look very critically, with hindsight, at the process of decision making and try to learn from it—not just in this case, but in every case.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
I think that you have heard CMAL respond to that. It took procurement advice and it would not say that that was out of the ordinary as regards the procurement process. However, it is important that such issues are now properly and fully investigated by the Auditor General rather than by my coming to summary conclusions without allowing that process to be undertaken.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
You will have read the 20 August 2015 submission. The timing of the announcement was to do with the tender timescale. In fact, the 20 August submission talks about—I am paraphrasing rather than quoting directly from it—getting close to the point where the tenders would expire. I think that there had already been a bit of an extension. The timing of the announcement was driven entirely by the timetable of the tender process.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
There are two questions in there, and I will separate them. I had no awareness or knowledge that CMAL had concerns about the announcement. Obviously, I have heard the concerns that it has expressed in evidence to this committee, for example. However, I have reviewed the briefing that I had that day and, far from having a knowledge that CMAL was concerned about that, my briefing included a set of questions and answers that had been prepared by CMAL, and the list of people who were due to attend included the then chief executive of CMAL, so nothing would have given me any sense that CMAL was unhappy with any of that.
10:30On whether that was an appropriate thing to do, I have probably covered that already. On Government announcements of preferred bidders and contracts, I am not sitting here saying that that happens with every single contract, but nor would it be correct that the announcement on this contract was somehow abnormal or unusual. I have referred to how, a few months later—it was me who did this—CalMac was announced as the preferred bidder for the ferry services contract. As I said, you can very easily find examples of other Governments on these islands doing similar things. It was not in any sense abnormal to announce a preferred bidder contract.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
At that stage, no.
You are obviously talking about what came to the transport minister in the context of the 8 October decision about the final contract award, which is distinct from preferred bidder. As I said, I was not aware of that at that time. I am obviously now very aware of that and, as I said in my response to the convener’s questions earlier, have fully reviewed all the paperwork that was before Derek Mackay at that point.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
I am very familiar with it, Mr Hoy.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
I have seen the outcome of what I asked officials to do. I will certainly look to see whether that can be provided to the committee; I do not see why it could not.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
I addressed that point in my opening remarks. As I have said before, I deeply regret the impact on island communities. The seriousness with which we take issues of connectivity to our islands, of which ferries are the critical part, is reflected in our overall ferries plan, in recent decisions that we have taken on the procurement of additional vessels and in our determination, notwithstanding the deep regret that we feel, to complete those ferries and ensure that all lessons are learned. That is very clear in my mind and I hope that it is clear from the Government overall.
Craig Hoy made a number of comments in his question to me. I would refute many of them, but clearly I am not able—and nor would I try—to refute the fact that this contract was not delivered in the way that we would have expected and wanted, nor has it come close to that. We can get into the issues of why that is the case. However, that does not lead inevitably to a conclusion that the procurement process was any of the ways that Craig Hoy has chosen to describe it.
Allegations have been made about the procurement process. Craig Hoy mentioned the BBC documentary. To be clear, ministers and I are not aware of impropriety in the procurement process. However, the allegations in the BBC “Disclosure” programme are serious and need to be properly investigated. When those allegations were reported, I asked the permanent secretary to proactively contact the Auditor General. Of course, the Auditor General has since said that he is looking at those allegations.
I can go through my understanding of each of them. The term “cheat sheet” that Craig Hoy used relates, I think, to the statement of operational and technical requirements that it has been alleged that Ferguson’s had. CMAL has been very clear that, to the best of its knowledge, it did not come from CMAL. In fact, I do not even think that the BBC alleged that; the BBC was clear in its programme that some design consultant that Ferguson’s commissioned was probably the source of it.
There are serious issues here. However, knowing how serious this committee is, I hope that it will not prejudge its outcome and that it looks at all of those things. The experience with the contract is clearly not acceptable, but it is important, if we are to genuinely learn lessons, that we do not come to summary judgments in the way that Craig Hoy’s question would suggest. Instead, we need to go through all these things rigorously and systematically and try, as best we can, to get to where the failings actually were, in order that we can learn the right lessons.
11:00Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
Let me come back to you on the exact Cabinet decisions. The issues would have been reported to Cabinet by ministers saying, “We’re doing these things,” rather than through full Cabinet papers, on which Cabinet would take the decision.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 4 November 2022
Nicola Sturgeon
No. I believe that the information that is published will show you that, because it shows, in a lot of detail, the different options that the Scottish Government looked at very rigorously. Project Kildonan looked at the different contingency options that were there. There was a lengthy period of time, so it is completely wrong to jump from May 2017 to nationalisation, and not to take proper account of all that happened in between, not least the loan provisions that the Scottish Government made, which I am sure that you may want to come on to later—