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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 August 2025
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Displaying 1119 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

I do. Your point about culture is very important, and HMICS has done a significant amount of work on scrutinising and making recommendations on how to embed a good organisational structure. I would never pretend that legislation alone was the magic bullet or the entire answer. However, the Scottish Government’s response to the independent Dame Elish Angiolini review was overwhelmingly positive. The vast majority of the recommendations were accepted. About two thirds of the recommendations were non-statutory, and 58 recommendations have already been implemented.

With regard to the oversight of that work, I chair a ministerial group that is about giving ministers assurance that policing partners are implementing recommendations, particularly non-legislative ones. That work was also supported by a strategic oversight group and a practitioners group. It is important to stress—I hope that I managed to do this in my opening remarks—that we have regularly informed the Parliament through Government-initiated questions and by writing to the committee a number of times on the thematic reviews.

We can group Dame Elish’s recommendations into categories, such as training and human resources and effectiveness and efficiency. There are many well-organised themes in her work and her recommendations, which has been of assistance in respect of policing partners’ reporting and in the correspondence that we have sent to the committee over a number of years.

We now have to move forward, build on the change that has begun and deliver on the commitments that we made to introduce legislation on the minority of Dame Elish’s recommendations that required statutory provision, including those relating to the code of ethics, the duty of candour and strengthening the independence and broadening the role of the PIRC.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

I am not aware of any, but I can ask officials if they know what the position is historically—I will let them contemplate that. When it comes to improvements in relation to misconduct and complaints, I have been focused on the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

I suppose that that is an argument for the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

The difficulty with that is that conduct regulations are in secondary legislation and the way to change them is via secondary legislation. There would also need to be extensive engagement and consultation on any proposed changes. Again, that is due to the obligations that are placed on us by the 2012 act. The way forward, or the vehicle for change for the practicalities that Ms Dowey has spoken about, is the primary legislation, which enables us to revisit secondary legislation. Do officials have any finer points of detail that they want to add?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

The only point that I would add is that we have to avoid a piecemeal approach. The Government made a commitment to lodge primary legislation to cover the necessary legislative changes that I referenced in my opening remarks. That needs to be supported by secondary legislation where necessary. The way that matters are phased and sequenced will be important, as will how we bring together aspects of the work that specifically relate to conduct regulations, because, even though the secondary legislation that flows from the bill will be required, we need to move forward in a planned and phased manner and not in a piecemeal way. I wanted to add that to give some assurance to Ms Dowey.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

Of course. I met the commissioner just last week—it was not my first engagement with her. I engage regularly with all policing partners. I note and pay attention to where there are differences of opinion among the PIRC, Police Scotland, HMICS and the Scottish Police Federation. When we get into the detail of a bill, not everybody faces the same direction all the time. The Government has to come to a view and, ultimately, the Parliament has to come to a view.

There are some aspects that we might come on to later, such as whether the commissioner should be on the prescribed persons list. There are practical arguments that the commissioner is deploying effectively, in my view. However, in a more global sense, while the bill either clarifies the role of the PIRC or extends an existing role by taking some narrow roles or duties and broadening them out, it is important that, particularly in senior officer cases, the role of the PIRC is expanded and that those functions are transferred from the Scottish Police Authority to the PIRC.

That is for pragmatic reasons. We have one police force in Scotland and a comparatively small number of senior police officers who all have a proximity to the Scottish Police Authority. The role of the PIRC is as a credible partner in policing and the cornerstone of policing in holding the police to account on behalf of the public and that is important.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

Yes.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

The legislation on whistleblowing is reserved. We are, of course, in discussion with the UK Government and with the PIRC. That is an example of where the commissioner makes a fair point, in my opinion, although the Parliament may have a different view.

I am committed to the transfer of functions from the SPA to the PIRC, because that is the prudent thing to do, given the perception of proximity between senior police officers and the Scottish Police Authority.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

It does apply to off-duty officers.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 May 2024

Angela Constance

I am not sure that any more clarity is required on that.