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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 August 2025
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Displaying 350 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

To follow on from the other answers, if Henry VIII powers are appropriate at the right time, how can we improve that scrutiny and accountability? That is the angle that we are looking at when it comes to subordinate legislation.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

Absolutely. Thank you. Kay, do you have anything to add?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

I did not in any way want to intimate that the work that you produce is not top quality—that is not what I meant. It is about the idea that we are not really creating good law.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

A factor that you might take into consideration is whether it makes more sense to move everything into secondary legislation.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

But you would not get involved in stakeholder engagement at the drafting stage.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

Absolutely. I ask the question of the other panel members: is this a sensible way to go? I see nodding heads.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

Good morning—it is still morning. There is much that I want to pick up on, so bear with me.

You have highlighted the drafting process. Thank you, Diggory, for doing that. I am picking up from you that it is not drafters who come up with whether something will be framework legislation or whether policy will be enacted through primary legislation. Drafting is just about the morphosis of an idea as it starts to go through.

I asked this question before. Is there, in effect, a line? As you go through the process, do you say, “This has been the conceptual idea, this is what we are trying to do, and this is what the minister is trying to get to. We are building up the bill and moving it forward, and now we’re drafting it. Now it has crossed the line that we have moved it towards. It will stay in framework or skeleton form”, or do you say “We now can see that there is a definite line and we can move this forward”? Is there a process like that?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

Absolutely.

Jessica highlighted earlier that

“producing good legislation takes time”,

which I thought was very interesting. I infer from that that, if there is a speedy expedited process, the chances are that you are moving towards writing what is not necessarily bad legislation, but is certainly not good legislation. Then, there is the genie out of the bottle that is 24-hour news, and the desire of elected officials to expedite the process as much as possible so that they are seen to be doing something. When you are writing legislation, do you feel that there is a possibility that we are moving on a continual conveyor belt of producing what is not necessarily good legislation?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

The joy of going last is that either you are saying what everybody else has already said or nobody wants to hear what you have got to say. I thank the witnesses for all their input. It was very interesting and informative. As others said, we know what the problems are; finding solutions will be harder.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

That was very helpful.