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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 868 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

I do not share the concern that companies will build different infrastructure just because we made them send their unused goods to charity鈥擺Interruption.]鈥攊nstead of to the incinerator鈥擺Interruption.] That seems a bit extreme.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

Yes, I agree with the member on that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

Certainly. From my point of view, the report made two substantive points, which we can go into in further detail if you would like. The first was that there was dissatisfaction with some of the assumptions that were made for specific numbers in the financial memorandum. I am content to take away that feedback, review those numbers and, as previously discussed, publish updates if I feel that that is necessary.

The second point was to do with frustration鈥攚hich I know that you share, convener鈥攁bout the nature of a framework bill and what that necessarily means for how the secondary legislation that follows on from such a bill can be scrutinised, in particular by the Finance and Public Administration Committee. The FPAC鈥檚 comment was that, although it sees the primary legislation, the secondary legislation does not come to it. Although that secondary legislation would come to committees such as this one and would be accompanied by impact assessments and similar information, it does not go to the FPAC. That is a matter of parliamentary process鈥攎aybe the issue is one that we should address, so that that committee can provide such oversight. That process is for the Parliament to decide.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

As I have said, I am happy to reflect on the numbers that have been flagged up by that committee. I will make a determination as to whether I feel that an update is required.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

I absolutely hear what COSLA is saying and understand that it has concerns about the possibility of imposing penalties. I will make a couple of points on that. One point is that the Verity house agreement commits to evidence-led policy, and the evidence tells us that voluntary codes of practice and targets are not sufficient. They need to be mandatory, and that means that there must be consequences for not complying, as there are in Wales.

We have also committed to making that sort of penalty a last resort. The intention is to support councils to deliver good services, not to penalise them, but there must be consequences for not meeting a mandatory obligation. I will be honest and say that, as we develop the code of practice with local authorities, I feel that those local authorities that invest heavily and do the work to comply with it will feel frustrated if other local authorities are simply not bothering to comply. Through that process, we will probably get to a point where they revisit that view, because it would be unfair for some local authorities to put in so much work to meet the targets if other local authorities simply decide that they will not bother.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

I am sorry, convener. I was referring to a letter addressed to you dated 30 November.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

It is a really good point to highlight that no legislative powers, for example, are required to introduce that excellent nappy reuse scheme. I have spoken to the member about that before. I understand that it is a cost-neutral scheme that North Ayrshire Council runs.

I have asked Zero Waste Scotland to take on a role facilitating best practice among councils, because the recycling services that our councils provide and their reuse services are enormously variable. Given that the nappy scheme is a cost-neutral provision鈥攊t saves the council from having to deal with nappies, which are, I am told, a real problem for the contamination of waste and are not easily recyclable鈥攊t could be a real benefit for councils. I have tasked Zero Waste Scotland with that and I absolutely expect to see that in the route map.

I do not know whether any of the officials want to comment on the route map in that regard.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

Yes. That is the fundamental difference between the bill and the specific provision on charging for single-use bags. The bill is a framework bill that will put in place powers to enable us to bring forward measures in a strategic way. By setting out a requirement for the Government to create a circular economy strategy and targets associated with that, we have put in place a framework to enable a more overarching approach.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

I am happy to consider that. I have spoken to the construction industry. Last year, I spoke with the Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland, and it was particularly keen on material passports, passports for buildings and reporting, so that it can be aware of what materials are available for reuse and get systems in place. We want to do more work on that.

I am sorry, but there is one more provision in the bill that I want to be clear about. Some concerns have been voiced that the bill looks at only recycling and waste, so I want to be clear that there are many provisions of the bill that look higher up. Zero Waste Scotland has been very supportive of us, and it will now be a public body. I have asked it to undertake the sharing of good practice, particularly between our councils. For example, Moray Waste Busters, which many of you might be familiar with, is an exemplar of how reuse can be attached to a local authority for the benefit of the community and, of course, the local authority.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2023

Lorna Slater

Do you mean the key findings of the report?